Micro-climate results

[Spiderguy47]

So a few months back I started expirememting with the idea of using a Micro climate for slings. The idea is often considered stupid and pointless. In this post I'm simply going to talk about observations I made while using the Micro climate.

First I will explain the micro-climate. It is an insulated sterillite bin with a heat mat inside. The temperature stays at or around 84 F°. It is essentially an incubator for slings. Here's a picture:

The purpose of a micro-climate is to increase the growth rate of tarantulas. I used this for aproximately 4.5 months. With 8 tarantulas. Here's what I noticed:

1. Before being placed inside my B. Vagans began premolt roughly 30 days after the previous molt and his premolt lasted 2.5 weeks. In the climate he molted roughly 20 days after each molt and premolt lasted 4-5 days.
2. Almost all species kept inside were in premolt for less than a week.
3. Not all species were effected by the increased temperature. (The exception being Psuedhapalopus sp. "Blue")
4. Generally the slings hardened faster after a molt. Most completely hard 2 days after a molt
5. The slings are generally more active than when kept at room temperature.

While they aren't necessary, micro-climates definitely have positive effects. (For the newbies reading this I think its important to mention that slings do just fine at room temp.) Along with proving my theory that increasing the temperature will speed up growth in some species it also proved my theory that some species aren't effected.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

Those temps are going to decrease the life span of your pet. Heat increases metabolism and growth as well as aging.

 

[EulersK]

n = 8, with several different species (all different species, perhaps?). Meaning your n is actually significantly less than 8.

Nice effort, but this yields anecdotal evidence at best. I have 100 H. sp. "Columbia" slings, half kept in my hot/humid roach room and the other half in room temperature (during winter). I saw no significant difference in appetite or growth rate. I even threw that evidence out as dismissive due to the sample size.

 

[Ungoliant]

While they aren't necessary, micro-climates definitely have positive effects. (For the newbies reading this I think its important to mention that slings do just fine at room temp.) Along with proving my theory that increasing the temperature will speed up growth in some species it also proved my theory that some species aren't effected.

Due to the small sample size and lack of controls, I think it's premature to say that proves a theory. At most it's an interesting experience that may justify more careful study.

n = 8, with several different species (all different species, perhaps?). Meaning your n is actually significantly less than 8.

Also lacking a control group.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

Its common knowledge in entomology temperature increases the life/death cycle of all inverts. Why is this even discussed anymore? I have years of first hand experience with calorie and temp boosting. Its benefits don't out weigh the downsides.

 

[sasker]

Those temps are going to decrease the life span of your pet. Heat increases metabolism and growth as well as aging.

Its common knowledge in entomology temperature increases the life/death cycle of all inverts. Why is this even discussed anymore? I have years of first hand experience with calorie and temp boosting. Its benefits don't out weigh the downsides.

We are talking about tarantulas here, of which some life up to 40 years. Are you suggesting that trying to speed up the growth of spiderlings for a few months takes off decades of life expectancy?

Edit: the most vulnerable time of a tarantula's life is during its sling phase. Getting past this time as quickly as possible would in fact increase the life expectancy of the spider.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Those temps are going to decrease the life span of your pet. Heat increases metabolism and growth as well as aging.

Its common knowledge in entomology temperature increases the life/death cycle of all inverts. Why is this even discussed anymore? I have years of first hand experience with calorie and temp boosting. Its benefits don't out weigh the downsides.

I'm with @sasker on this, these animals can live for over a decade, hell, some can even live for in excess of 40 years. While increasing temps may reduce lifespan, the reduction itself will be negligible, we're talking a matter of months at most.

 

[Anoplogaster]

I agree with @Ungoliant . I wouldn’t consider this a proof of anything, really. In addition to low sample size, you’d also have to define your proxies for your variables. How do you measure premolt? How do you determine at what point the exo is completely hardened? How do you measure activity levels?

When I have sparse data, I typically play the conservative card and use statements like “Evidence suggests that ______” rather than using “This proves that ______.”

 

[Spiderguy47]

I agree with @Ungoliant . I wouldn’t consider this a proof of anything, really. In addition to low sample size, you’d also have to define your proxies for your variables. How do you measure premolt? How do you determine at what point the exo is completely hardened? How do you measure activity levels?

When I have sparse data, I typically play the conservative card and use statements like “Evidence suggests that ______” rather than using “This proves that ______.”

1. I consider them in premolt the first day that I see 2 or more signs of premolt. (Examples: enlarged abdomen, refusing food, increase in burrowing and webbing)
2. I determined that the exo was hard when the tarantulas lost their glossy sheen and began eating.
3. Activity levels, I just kinda threw that in there because I noticed that they spent more time walking around in the open.

Sorry I worded it poorly, I meant it supports my theory not proves it.

 

[Dave Jay]

I would say it's quite likely to speed up the timing of the moult cycle, and activity levels. As stated previously, in cold blooded animals an increase in temperature increases metabolism, so logically all processes are sped up . It certainly works for fish and reptiles, and it has been suggested that it may reduce the time between moults in scorpions, so why not tarantulas? I also agree that without conducting a proper controlled experiment you could use the method your whole life and still only ever be able to provide anecdotal evidence, but in most animal husbandry enough anecdotal evidence from different sources often means that the evidence is taken as fact. However your theory should not be hard to prove if proper guidelines regarding conducting experiments are followed.
In any case, considering room temperature can be considered 20 to 25c, and you are only talking about 28c I don't think there would be a dramatic effect either way. Personally I keep fish fry at 30-32c to grow them faster, and while I've never conducted a proper experiment to prove it, it's not hard to see when you have fry from the same batch in different tanks side by side with the only difference being temperature.
I can't see it doing any harm raising slings at a slightly higher temperature, if I had them here in summer they'd often be at temps over 28 , often night time temps are higher than that!

 

[sasker]

Sorry I worded it poorly, I meant it supports my theory not proves it.

Scientifically sound or not, your little experiment is very interesting. Thank you for sharing!

 

[Anoplogaster]

Scientifically sound or not, your little experiment is very interesting. Thank you for sharing!

I agree completely. You did what you could, and we can still learn something It’s more than I’ve done with my spiders

 

[AmbushArachnids]

I'm with @sasker on this, these animals can live for over a decade, hell, some can even live for in excess of 40 years. While increasing temps may reduce lifespan, the reduction itself will be negligible, we're talking a matter of months at most.

I'm staying in my own experiences I've had tarantulas drop dead from increased temperatures. Even after a few weeks.

 

[StampFan]

So a few months back I started expirememting with the idea of using a Micro climate for slings. The idea is often considered stupid and pointless. In this post I'm simply going to talk about observations I made while using the Micro climate.

First I will explain the micro-climate. It is an insulated sterillite bin with a heat mat inside. The temperature stays at or around 84 F°. It is essentially an incubator for slings. Here's a picture: View attachment 266952

The purpose of a micro-climate is to increase the growth rate of tarantulas. I used this for aproximately 4.5 months. With 8 tarantulas. Here's what I noticed:

1. Before being placed inside my B. Vagans began premolt roughly 30 days after the previous molt and his premolt lasted 2.5 weeks. In the climate he molted roughly 20 days after each molt and premolt lasted 4-5 days.
2. Almost all species kept inside were in premolt for less than a week.
3. Not all species were effected by the increased temperature. (The exception being Psuedhapalopus sp. "Blue")
4. Generally the slings hardened faster after a molt. Most completely hard 2 days after a molt
5. The slings are generally more active than when kept at room temperature.

While they aren't necessary, micro-climates definitely have positive effects. (For the newbies reading this I think its important to mention that slings do just fine at room temp.) Along with proving my theory that increasing the temperature will speed up growth in some species it also proved my theory that some species aren't effected.

If you continue to use it and track it please continue to report back results. One guy's attempt > than no attempt at all.

 

[MKNoiL]

Man, I love this forum for that kind of threads... so many different points of view and constructive arguing.

@Spiderguy47 U did nice job by doing that little "experiment" But I have to agree with with @Ungoliant. That is the way I see it.

Anyway... we all have to admit that this kind of "tests" bring us some new informations and experiences.

 

[Spiderguy47]

If you continue to use it and track it please continue to report back results. One guy's attempt > than no attempt at all.

I'm definitely going to keep using it. Especially since one of my OBT slings is missing a leg and I want it to regrow that leg as soon as possible. Also something I forgot to mention before, I don't know if it has the same effect on juveniles and adults. My slings get removed at about 2 inch DLS, I'd like to leave them in longer but the enclosures I put them in don't fit.

If any of you are planning on a breeding project soon the slings would make great test subjects. Maybe seperate them into groups and keep each group at different temps. We could find out if they're is a direct correlation between their growth rate and the temperature they're kept at.
I'd love to do this myself but my only MF is in premolt.

 

[Spiderguy47]

@AgentD006las I do think you brought up a good point though. I have heard stories of people losing Ts to overheating. In most cases the temperatures were around 90+. This is why I keep an analog thermometer (analog is much more reliable than digital) in the micro-climate and around my other Ts enclosures. Its always good to monitor temperature, especially in the summer.

 

[AmbushArachnids]

@AgentD006las I do think you brought up a good point though. I have heard stories of people losing Ts to overheating. In most cases the temperatures were around 90+. This is why I keep an analog thermometer (analog is much more reliable than digital) in the micro-climate and around my other Ts enclosures. Its always good to monitor temperature, especially in the summer.

Spider beef jerky anyone? Besides that I've had perfectly raised adults p. Miranda, p. Murinus, p. Irminia, A. Versicolor, A. Minatrix all die from prolonged heat exhuastion. They were kept at 85 degrees for 2 years continuously. Most spiders that should of lived 6 years easily checked out in record time, some were even gravid when they passed. Heat kills, test it out. Or be patient and enjoy what you have at the size they are. Its a marathon and a life long hobby.

 

[boina]

Spider beef jerky anyone? Besides that I've had perfectly raised adults p. Miranda, p. Murinus, p. Irminia, A. Versicolor, A. Minatrix all die from prolonged heat exhuastion. They were kept at 85 degrees for 2 years continuously. Most spiders that should of lived 6 years easily checked out in record time, some were even gravid when they passed. Heat kills, test it out. Or be patient and enjoy what you have at the size they are. Its a marathon and a life long hobby.

How did you determine it was the heat that killed them?

 

[cold blood]

I've had extended periods in summer where my room exceeded 90...while ts do get more lethargic as you exceed their optimum temps, I have never had one die.

This is the first I have heard of ts dying in temps in the mid-80's or even higher.....interesting though, I wonder what the differences between my experiences and @AgentD006las were.