Mating complications and a possible pregnancy. Assistance needed.

[Giygas]

Hey guys.
Last week, I gave mating my P.imperators a go. First time there was no response, but the second time they actually mated. This is the problem. The male had laid down his sperm packet, except the female got fed up an abandoned the whole thing. I had a thought, and I wanted to know, can the males lay down more than one packet per mating?

After several tries later, nothing. The female just avoids him and occasionally shoves him aside. I looked closer one night and I noticed she was plumper than usual, her platings were indeed parting, much like a gravid specimen. So I grabbed my camera and took these 3 photos. I need you guys to determine whether or not she is gravid. I have a feeling she might be, but I'd rather consult people of higher knowledge and experience. Thanks a lot.

 

[Olsin]

This is the problem. The male had laid down his sperm packet, except the female got fed up an abandoned the whole thing. I had a thought, and I wanted to know, can the males lay down more than one packet per mating?

Are you absolutely sure the mating wasn't viable? .. The female could well have absorbed the sperm package at the top of the spermatophore without you noticing it. She only has to rest over it for a second or 2.
Males usually only produce one spermatophore per mating. A rest of a day or 2 and then they can produce another.

After several tries later, nothing. The female just avoids him and occasionally shoves him aside.

This could quite well be because she accepted the sperm package first time around. Gravid females won't mate again once they have already been mated.

I looked closer one night and I noticed she was plumper than usual, her platings were indeed parting, much like a gravid specimen. So I grabbed my camera and took these 3 photos. I need you guys to determine whether or not she is gravid. I have a feeling she might be, but I'd rather consult people of higher knowledge and experience. Thanks a lot.

Emps have an approx 9 month gestation period so from last week until now there is no way to tell if she is gravid. As in humans, females don't show their pregnant until a few months into term. It'll be the same with Emps. The initial mating could well have been successful but she won't be showing any signs of being gravid for a few months yet.

 

[Formerphobe]

If they just mated last week, she will not be showing signs of being gravid from that mating. Gestation period is 7 to 12 months. If you got her as an adult, she may have already been gravid. Or she's just been eating well.

 

[Giygas]

About the signs of being gravid, I was a bit hasty.
I actually saw the packet on the bark, and it was just left there and she just left it alone.
What im trying to figure out is why she's constantly resisting, even after a week in between mating attempts.

 

[Formerphobe]

If she's already gravid, she will resist. Or, maybe she's got a headache...

 

[Olsin]

I actually saw the packet on the bark, and it was just left there and she just left it alone.
What im trying to figure out is why she's constantly resisting, even after a week in between mating attempts.

Males don't deposit a spermatophore at their leisure for the female to find and take in at her leisure. The male will hold the females chelae with his and "dance" around with her until he has found a decent spot to deposit. He then pulls the female over it for her to absorb. He won't let go of her until she has absorbed the package which as i mentioned earlier can go very quickly. Blink and you'll miss it kinda thing.

The reason she's resisting mating can almost only be because she's already gravid, either at the hand of your male or some other male before you acquired her. If you saw the package on the bark then that would suggest that they danced and mated. If the female allowed the male to grab her chelae and dance around with her then she almost certainly wasn't already gravid. All that's left is the mating you initiated was successful.

 

[Giygas]

Males don't deposit a spermatophore at their leisure for the female to find and take in at her leisure. The male will hold the females chelae with his and "dance" around with her until he has found a decent spot to deposit. He then pulls the female over it for her to absorb. He won't let go of her until she has absorbed the package which as i mentioned earlier can go very quickly. Blink and you'll miss it kinda thing.

The reason she's resisting mating can almost only be because she's already gravid, either at the hand of your male or some other male before you acquired her. If you saw the package on the bark then that would suggest that they danced and mated. If the female allowed the male to grab her chelae and dance around with her then she almost certainly wasn't already gravid. All that's left is the mating you initiated was successful.

I acquired them more than a year ago. I'm quite serious when I said she abandoned it. She scampered off and the male just stood there. I promise you this happened, you can take my word for it. After 10 minutes of the male chasing her around to pull her back onto the bark, she lipped out and thats when she gave up. The nodule was thrown away after.

---------- Post added 07-20-2012 at 03:21 PM ----------

Ill just try again soon.

 

[Olsin]

I'm quite serious when I said she abandoned it. She scampered off and the male just stood there. I promise you this happened, you can take my word for it.

It's ok mate .. i believe you .

Ok, let me get this straight .. did you see the male grab the female and dance around with her? If you did then in my mind she was compliant. If not then she wasn't in the mood....and if you've had her for a year (i'm assuming she was alone in her enclosure) then of course that rules out her already being gravid.
You can either leave the male in with her, in which case they will probably mate again sooner or later (if she's not already gravid) or you can introduce the male again after a few days rest and see if she's ready to dance...If she constantly rejects him then i'd still be inclined to think the first mating was indeed successful.

 

[Giygas]

It's ok mate .. i believe you .

Ok, let me get this straight .. did you see the male grab the female and dance around with her? If you did then in my mind she was compliant. If not then she wasn't in the mood....and if you've had her for a year (i'm assuming she was alone in her enclosure) then of course that rules out her already being gravid.
You can either leave the male in with her, in which case they will probably mate again sooner or later (if she's not already gravid) or you can introduce the male again after a few days rest and see if she's ready to dance...If she constantly rejects him then i'd still be inclined to think the first mating was indeed successful.

yes they danced, its just that she didnt pick it up. Just left the node there, nothing was picked up.
I'll try again tomorrow and report back.

 

[Olsin]

yes they danced, its just that she didnt pick it up. Just left the node there, nothing was picked up.
I'll try again tomorrow and report back.

She won't pick up or absorb the whole spermatophore.....just the small package of sperm at the top of it. It's unlikely you saw the male place the spermatophore unless you was watching down at substrate level (so you could look underneath them) and saw it being deposited. Likewise you wouldn't have seen the female absorb it. If you was looking down on them your first indication of a spermatophore being placed was when both the female and male had moved away from the area...In this case you would have noticed a small "twig" like structure poking up from the place of deposit. That will remain there even though the female has absorbed the sperm package at the top of it.

So to recap ... She doesn't take the whole spermatophore into her genital operculum, just the small package of sperm at the tip of it. The remaining parts of the spermatophore will still be standing.

 

[Giygas]

She won't pick up or absorb the whole spermatophore.....just the small package of sperm at the top of it. It's unlikely you saw the male place the spermatophore unless you was watching down at substrate level (so you could look underneath them) and saw it being deposited. Likewise you wouldn't have seen the female absorb it. If you was looking down on them your first indication of a spermatophore being placed was when both the female and male had moved away from the area...In this case you would have noticed a small "twig" like structure poking up from the place of deposit. That will remain there even though the female has absorbed the sperm package at the top of it.

So to recap ... She doesn't take the whole spermatophore into her genital operculum, just the small package of sperm at the tip of it. The remaining parts of the spermatophore will still be standing.

My oh my, I did not know this...
So...I've successfully mated them then. Hah.

Thanks for your help Olsin, you've been a fountain of knowledge and insight.
Hopefully things will turn out for the best.

 

[snippy]

What you observed as abandoning the sperm package is actually a common post-mating behavior. Most of the time there is a sudden raise in what seems to be aggression the second the female has assumed the proper position, then there will be anything from stinging attempts and clubbing with the metasoma which causes sudden seperation and most of the time the partners even run away quite wildly. All to avoid mating cannibalism, of course.

Regards
Finn