Lifetime effects of a T bite?

Python

Arachnolord
Old Timer
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Mar 21, 2005
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Several years ago there was a guy on here that was letting everything he had bite him so he could post bite reports. It would appear that they've since been removed and if I remember correctly, he may have been banned or at the very least he was asked to stop doing such a dangerous and stupid thing. It's been a while so I don't remember specifics or even his name. At any rate, he would be the closest thing to an authority on bites that I could think of and it would be cool if he could come chime in on this interesting topic. Personally, I've never been bitten by a T although I have been stung twice by local scorpions in the wild, my fault both times. I've been in the hobby for over 20 years so it's not entirely a sure thing that a person will get bitten, although the chances are probably higher than average.
 

Cheo Samad

Arachnopeon
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Several years ago there was a guy on here that was letting everything he had bite him so he could post bite reports. It would appear that they've since been removed and if I remember correctly, he may have been banned or at the very least he was asked to stop doing such a dangerous and stupid thing. It's been a while so I don't remember specifics or even his name. At any rate, he would be the closest thing to an authority on bites that I could think of and it would be cool if he could come chime in on this interesting topic. Personally, I've never been bitten by a T although I have been stung twice by local scorpions in the wild, my fault both times. I've been in the hobby for over 20 years so it's not entirely a sure thing that a person will get bitten, although the chances are probably higher than average.
I wosh they would have at least archived it. That would be pretty useful intro especially now. They have bite reports of people who let their Ts bite them on purpose so I fail to see why it matters.
 

mistertim

Arachnobaron
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Sep 4, 2015
Messages
548
Several years ago there was a guy on here that was letting everything he had bite him so he could post bite reports. It would appear that they've since been removed and if I remember correctly, he may have been banned or at the very least he was asked to stop doing such a dangerous and stupid thing. It's been a while so I don't remember specifics or even his name. At any rate, he would be the closest thing to an authority on bites that I could think of and it would be cool if he could come chime in on this interesting topic. Personally, I've never been bitten by a T although I have been stung twice by local scorpions in the wild, my fault both times. I've been in the hobby for over 20 years so it's not entirely a sure thing that a person will get bitten, although the chances are probably higher than average.
Or an authority on abject stupidity.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
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17,819
Maybe I'll be the oddball to man up and start envenomating myself in the name of science. (NOT!)
There's a guy doing this with hot snakes. The idea is scientists will use his antibodies instead of non-human Abs to treat bites. He's typically injecting about 3-5 different species's toxins at a time.
 

Cheo Samad

Arachnopeon
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Jan 2, 2017
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Update on this from today. My local pet shop I go to is a very humble mom and pop shop run by a guy from my area. He keeps mostly venomous snakes (from King Cobras to Western Diamondbacks and everything in between). This isn't just some guy with snakes. He went to school and has a degree in herpetology. He milks snakes for venom research.

Come to find out he is also a T keeper. Go figure. I brought up this question with him and came to learn that not only has he been bitten before twice (ones by P Murinus, and once so long ago he forgot what it was) but he also is someone who self immunized against snake venom.

I actually couldn't believe it. However, as he deacribed the process, I began to come to a greater understanding of my original question in regards to the T venom. Yes, you can build a tolerance to animal venom through repeated exposure. What I didn't know, is that you don't gain this resistance for life, you have to constantly expose yourself, or the immunization fades away. He is taking venom and injecting himsef with a dose every 2 weeks. As it stands today, if something is his collection was to bite him, and deliver a full dose of venom, he wouldn't even be bothered. Not even a hospital visit.

He said the very first time that he was bitten was by accident by a species of rattle snake that I can't even begin to spell. He was hospitalized, but refused anti-venom, because as it is made with horse plasma, it comes with nasty side effects. They gave him fluids and monitored him for 12 hours, at which point he signed himself out and went home. He considered it his first exposure and has been self immunizing since that event.

To make a long story short, the T venom would most likely follow a similar regime. That being said, you would have to constantly re-expose yourself to the venom, or the effect would eventually be lost. All in all, I got the answer to my question.
 

cold blood

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There's a guy doing this with hot snakes. The idea is scientists will use his antibodies instead of non-human Abs to treat bites. He's typically injecting about 3-5 different species's toxins at a time.
Injecting is also far less traumatic than taking a bite.
 

mistertim

Arachnobaron
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Injecting is also far less traumatic than taking a bite.
Yeah and it is far more scientific. You can precisely control the amount of venom and record the results. With the previously mentioned way of just letting every tarantula you own bite you it's basically:

Bit me.
Hurt.
1/10 would not recommend.
 

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
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There are three different ways that you can inject a substance into your body - subcutaneously, intramuscular, or intravenously. Depending on which you choose - the effects of the venom are going to have drastically different effects on your body.
An animal is not going to give you the luxury of which way they will inject venom into your body. Chances are that a snake would enter intramuscular, but a bite could also result in venom being distributed intravenously. Chances are slim that it only injects you subcutaneously. I would think that you might have a higher chance of tarantula venom being administered subcutaneously considering that they do not have a mouth to clamp on with and many people are bitten on their hands and not the more muscular parts of their body.
How is this guy administering this venom himself? If he is administering it subcutaneously, he is getting different results than a person would from a bite that the animal administers intramuscular.
 

Cheo Samad

Arachnopeon
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I have to go to him a few times a week for rats so I will be sure to ask him. I could take any other questions to him too, I'm sure he'd be happy to answer them.
 

Vanessa

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You can immediately eliminate intravenously, because he would be dead. And I'm even going to guess that he isn't doing it intramuscular either.
Fluids injected subcutaneously are done so if the effects of what you're injecting are ideally administered slowly through absorption. I have administered Lactated Ringer's solution in that manner countless times, along with a number of different antibiotics.
Venom would be very slowly absorbed into the body and would not replicate how a snake, or even a tarantula, would administer venom. So, while he might be building up some sort of resistance to subcutaneous absorption, I wouldn't want to test that resistance against a full dose of venom administered intramuscular.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
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Injecting is also far less traumatic than taking a bite.
Without a doubt, but it was still cool to read about him, and an interesting approach to as opposed to traditional methods. The potential benefits are well worth doing, could save some lives.

Yeah and it is far more scientific. You can precisely control the amount of venom and record the results. With the previously mentioned way of just letting every tarantula you own bite you it's basically:

Bit me.
Hurt.
1/10 would not recommend.
All true too. it was an interesting read.
 

Cheo Samad

Arachnopeon
Joined
Jan 2, 2017
Messages
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You can immediately eliminate intravenously, because he would be dead. And I'm even going to guess that he isn't doing it intramuscular either.
Fluids injected subcutaneously are done so if the effects of what you're injecting are ideally administered slowly through absorption. I have administered Lactated Ringer's solution in that manner countless times, along with a number of different antibiotics.
Venom would be very slowly absorbed into the body and would not replicate how a snake, or tarantula, would administer venom. So, while he might be building up some sort of resistance to subcutaneous absorption, I wouldn't want to test that resistance against a full dose of venom administered intramuscular.
Regardless of the method of envenomation he is using, it's working. He has taken full on wet bites on more than one ocassion since self immunizing, and has not been back to the hospital for any of these subsequent incidents.

I'd also say its a pretty safe bet that he is doing it either intramuscularly, or intravenously. If he's gone through enough hoops just to get his degree and his permit to work with these animals, I'm sure he knows what he would have to do to simulate a bite from one.
 

viper69

ArachnoGod
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because as it is made with horse plasma, it comes with nasty side effects.
BINGO..that's why the guy I posted about earlier up is doing it as well. Treatment with equine products can kill people at times if I recall correctly too.
 

Vanessa

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If you watch the video on this article, this man is injecting this venom subcutaneously. He isn't even fully injecting it - he places it on the surface and pushes it in, just under the skin, with the syringe.
I'm not saying that a resistance isn't being built up and, that doing it the length of time that he has been, an intramuscular injection is not going to have the same effect on him than someone who has never built a resistance. Still, he is not injecting it intramuscular or intravenously. Intravenously would take only a few seconds to reach your heart and it would kill you.
http://www.cnn.com/2016/12/21/health/snake-venom-injection-research/
 
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