Keeping wild spiders.

[zonbonzovi]

I'm with What on this, Caco, you can correct someone w/o being a douche. Why not provide a link to one of those numerous med. journals that you mentioned? Despite what certain folks that come here think, couching your info. in pomposity does not make it easier to digest. If you are indeed the "safety police", you have your work cut out for you as there are many threads old & new that lend themselves to much more negligible safety issues. I respect your knowledge and what you have given to this community, but I am tired of reading through initially fascinating threads that devolve into cyber boxing matches.

Sandeku...no one link, tread, etc. is going to give you what you desire. You must take details from one source & apply them to another back & forth until you have what you seek. Sometimes it doesn't come at all. In the bug hobby, the journey will be much more revealing than the destination in many cases.

 

[cacoseraph]

lol idk



and thanks for the life lessons. in all my 31 years of being a highly social genius i never realized all that. glad some random person on the internet could explain it to me!

 

[jsloan]

i am almost positive triangles HAVE been implicated in bites at least as bad as sac spiders.

Do you know of any peer-reviewed reports on the bite of S. triangulosa? If so, could you name them, as I'd like to read them. The spider will have to have been properly identified by an arachnologist, and known without a doubt to be responsible for the bite (not just "implicated" from being nearby), and the symptoms must have been properly documented and confirmed by a physician. Thanks.

 

[What]

blue is giving blithe, bad advice and i won't stand for it.

He is doing exactly what Venom has done for years (overstating the danger of Cheriacanthium), and yes, its annoying, but not worth this thread.

it's not that i think triangles or Cheira can really mess someone up. far from it. ...but i have spent years and years reading as many medical journals and other sources of literature that i can.... and i am almost positive triangles HAVE been implicated in bites at least as bad as sac spiders.

I agree with you that neither are dangerous and both have exceptional cases that were kinda bad...but that they arent to be worried about in general (unless you have personal experience suggesting spider bites may be a problem for you)... I just dont understand why this whole thread had to happen.

I dont know exactly where to look for them.

Fun fact about looking for bugs (or things in general), you never know exactly where to look for them until you actually look and try to find them...eventually you will, then you will know where to find them again. Thats the point.

 

[cacoseraph]

zomg, this took me about three minutes to google. and one minute of that was spent watching mary poppins


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17159734

"identification Steatoda triangulosa) bit him. Clinical manifestations included local signs together with systemic neurological symptoms resembling low-grade latrodectism (black widow envenomation)."



jeez, i'm right again. it's like i know what i am doing

---------- Post added at 01:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:20 PM ----------

so


now


can you possibly maybe see why i have a bit of problem with blue selling triangles as perfectly safe and harmless?



if not, holy gods

 

[SandDeku]

I'm with What on this, Caco, you can correct someone w/o being a douche. Why not provide a link to one of those numerous med. journals that you mentioned? Despite what certain folks that come here think, couching your info. in pomposity does not make it easier to digest. If you are indeed the "safety police", you have your work cut out for you as there are many threads old & new that lend themselves to much more negligible safety issues. I respect your knowledge and what you have given to this community, but I am tired of reading through initially fascinating threads that devolve into cyber boxing matches.

Sandeku...no one link, tread, etc. is going to give you what you desire. You must take details from one source & apply them to another back & forth until you have what you seek. Sometimes it doesn't come at all. In the bug hobby, the journey will be much more revealing than the destination in many cases.

Thank you. I just wanted to hear opinions from people to know the ins and out. As well as know if anyone had recomendations on which places to look/books and everything. It's sorta confusing to take informations from different places. :/ because you never know which is right and which is wrong by doing that.

---------- Post added at 05:16 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:15 PM ----------

He is doing exactly what Venom has done for years (overstating the danger of Cheriacanthium), and yes, its annoying, but not worth this thread.

I agree with you that neither are dangerous and both have exceptional cases that were kinda bad...but that they arent to be worried about in general (unless you have personal experience suggesting spider bites may be a problem for you)... I just dont understand why this whole thread had to happen.

Fun fact about looking for bugs (or things in general), you never know exactly where to look for them until you actually look and try to find them...eventually you will, then you will know where to find them again. Thats the point.

:[ but I been looking for years! I never find anything except those black little beetles and slugs. As well as those small centipedes and small spiders. :c

 

[What]

can you possibly maybe see why i have a bit of problem with blue selling triangles as perfectly safe and harmless?

if not, holy gods

Why does one case of a severe reaction mean we should view a generally harmless spider as anything other than that? I dont even know how many times I have been bitten by S. triangulosa, I have also been bitten a few times by Cheriacanthium sp... Both species hurt a little, the triangulosa make your fingertips tingly, the sac spiders leave a little black dot...harmless. I do not have an allergy to spider venom, I also do not have any special conditions that would lead to an interaction such as that exceptional case...so yes, they are harmless.

I have more of a problem with the fear mongering about venoms (on cyanocean's side initially, more yours now) than anyone saying a harmless spider is harmless... :?

 

[zonbonzovi]

Thank you. I just wanted to hear opinions from people to know the ins and out. As well as know if anyone had recomendations on which places to look/books and everything. It's sorta confusing to take informations from different places. :/ because you never know which is right and which is wrong by doing

I'll definitely concede that. Generally, comprehensive lists are hard to come by. If I'm looking for something in particular, I'll search until I can get a rough ID, family or scientific name. Look up the creature via bugguide & click on the tabs above the picture(taxonomy, browse, info, images, etc.). In the books & links tab, you'll find print/web resources devoted to the creature you're searching, often in much greater detail. Your local library will not have most of these obscure books but can get them via interlibrary loan. I've personally found some ridiculously hard to get stuff this way. Happy hunting!

 

[cacoseraph]

uh no, i've never fear mongered. my only position, ever, has been that Steatoda and Cheiracanthum are roughly equivalent is potential danger. to suggest one after someone has vocally been afraid of the other is irresponsible


to suggest that either is utterly harmless is irresponsible. to say that all species in either genera are unqualified dangerous is irresponsble.



all the stupid stuff that doesn't make sense has been donated by other ppl.


to make it as clear as i can: if someone is at all concerned about the toxic effects of spider bites than neither genus is good to suggest. if they have a more reasonable fear, both genera can make sweet pets/observational organisms. a good bite from a lot of the OW genera of tarantulas is going to be way worse than a good bite from either genera.

personally, i have kept all the spiders talked about in this thread, and widows, and lots of other stuff and have read tons about them all. what i say is based on a synthesis of my own experiences and everything i have read. is it guaranteed to be gospel truth? of course not. but, i mean, i was right here and i am generally right when i argue vociferously for points i consider worth being clear on. a lot of times ppl imperfectly process what i write. because i tease a bit and can't help but assume ppl have at least an 8th grade (USA) reading comprehension level sometimes ppl go off on these crazy tangents. i probably could help it, but my caconess, it is funny so i don't think i will


plus... everyone should always google/research the heck out of everything so they can't get suckered on accident. i am quite sure cyano only meant the best... but she just plain didn't know what she was talking about and wasn't familiar with my abilities and proclivities. irony is, unless she is ghosting this thread or someone tells her, she won't even learn anything useful from this experience. oh well. can't win 'em all







oh, and to all the ppl who whined about me... please, by the grace of the cruel gods that are.... tell me you see what i was getting at now!





edit:
and as i said, i do recall seeing much more than one case of a triangle bite with more than zero effects. i googled one in about two minutes and stopped looking cuz, damn, this thread has been half a joke already and i can't be bothered. but, well, if you still don't believe me, that's cool. i don't care. reasonable ppl will take what i want them to from this thread and that is all i care about

 

[spider pest]

But I never seen them in my parts.... Iam in north NJ round morris town. :/ I find nothing there except the common yellow sacs, occassional wolfs, and grass spiders.

I dont know exactly where to look for them.

If you read the link/PDF or search the board for threads on spiders that interest you, you will find habitat descriptions and tons of information. You can then visit local areas which sound similar. Or, you can just wing it and go find some nearby woods or fields or parks to investigate. If you don't have a desire to do that, I'm not really sure why you're here! :?

 

[cacoseraph]

If you read the link/PDF or search the board for threads on spiders that interest you, you will find habitat descriptions and tons of information. You can then visit local areas which sound similar. Or, you can just wing it and go find some nearby woods or fields or parks to investigate. If you don't have a desire to do that, I'm not really sure why you're here! :?

that is pretty much how i do it


i spend far more time reading and researching than in the field actually looking for bugs


http://www.google.com/search?q=site...&ct=mode&cd=2&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=925&bih=617
here is a google search to help you out. it searches the site www.bugguide.net for any pictures of spiders that have the words "new jersey" by them. you can look through there, find pics that interest you, and then immediately learn more about them from bugguide. BG is one of the most useful tools i have for bug stuff

 

[What]

uh no, i've never fear mongered. my only position, ever, has been that Steatoda and Cheiracanthum are roughly equivalent is potential danger. to suggest one after someone has vocally been afraid of the other is irresponsible

to suggest that either is utterly harmless is irresponsible. to say that all species in either genera are unqualified dangerous is irresponsble.

Your posting about and insisting about the S. triangulosa bite having major systemic effects reads, as a casual observer, as a bit of fear mongering, no offense was intended.

And I agree that they are of equal danger to the average person, harmless...hence my totally not understanding why the both of you felt the need to make so many posts about it, it doesnt matter which one has more potential danger in the 1 case in a million unless you are that 1 case.

you can look through there, find pics that interest you, and then immediately learn more about them from bugguide. BG is one of the most useful tools i have for bug stuff

Or you can use BugGuide's Advanced Search and bring up the spiders of New Jersey listed on BugGuide.

 

[jsloan]

"identification Steatoda triangulosa) bit him. Clinical manifestations included local signs together with systemic neurological symptoms resembling low-grade latrodectism (black widow envenomation)."

Yeah, I'd already found that. Nothing there to support your claim that this species is dangerous: "mild symptoms resolved quickly without hospital care."

 

[cacoseraph]

holy crap. quote where i say triangulosa have major effects? i have said greather than zero. i would hesitate to say that is "major effects" unless your scale is integer and runs from zero to one. i've said Steatoda and Cheiracanthum are about equal dangerousness and that triangles HAS been implicated in human reactive bites.




you know what? (not you what). i actually give up. i obviously have lost the ability to communicate in english and apparently can't understand the written rules to this site

 

[SandDeku]

If you read the link/PDF or search the board for threads on spiders that interest you, you will find habitat descriptions and tons of information. You can then visit local areas which sound similar. Or, you can just wing it and go find some nearby woods or fields or parks to investigate. If you don't have a desire to do that, I'm not really sure why you're here! :?

I'm here to get myself familiar. I don't want to go out on the field. find a pretty spider. Bring it home having it bite me then me dying. D;

 

[buthus]

IMO ...Caco is fighting a long lasting and constant battle against allowing the hobby(and its often not so scientific nature) to overwhelm the little bit of good scientific info on the internet. Problem is (again..only mo) this thread? ...eh.. probably not the most logical place to try and fight this battle ...well...beyond stating that.. there really is no good evidence that sac spiders are more dangerous than other common "house" spider that one would pick up and put in a jar.

The danger with handling sac spiders is that they always get away!
The danger with handling triangulosa is that its easy to accidentally squish em!

 

[Tresta]

Help with Steatoda triangulosa

I have an adult female Steatoda triangulosa, which I haven't had more than a couple of months. Today I noticed some liquid at the bottom of her enclosure. It's not from any of her kills, and not anything I've put in there. Any ideas what this could be? Unfortunately I have calcium sand in the bottom so it has absorbed and altered the substance. It looks clear, and there is alot more of it than she is big. Any help or suggestions would be awesome

 

[What]

Any help or suggestions would be awesome

Its probably excrement.

 

[Pssh]

I'm here to get myself familiar. I don't want to go out on the field. find a pretty spider. Bring it home having it bite me then me dying. D;

Just treat every spider you find as if it is dangerous. Contain it, bring it home, and ID it. If you don't want it after you figure it out, put it back where you found it. That's what I do with all inverts that I cannot immediately ID as harmless.

 

[buthus]

Its probably excrement.

Maybe... or a botched egg sac.