I'm interested in amblypygi/whip sc lately and am considering picking one up. What's a good species?

[Mariamatic]

As the title says. I have a spare enclosure and I've been really fascinated by whip scorpions these days, so I am thinking I might pick one up at one of the reptile expos in the next couple months. It would be my only arachnid, I only have millipedes and mantids right now, but I am looking to get something slightly creepier next. Would one of these be a good choice? It would be between an amblypygid, a vinegaroon, or a large Asian forest scorpion.

I am also wondering what might be a good species for me? I love the ones with the longer pedipalps, especially Euphrynichus amanica with those awesome grabby hands <3 but I have read they aren't too easy to get ahold of. A secondary consideration would be a species that is more friendly and okay with being handled, though it seems like most of them are relatively peaceful and I probably wouldn't be getting it out all too often. I'm not really interested in breeding them, just one individual for observation.

Thanks for any info!

 

[schmiggle]

First off--don't handle them. It's a sensory overload for their very chemosensitive whips to deal with all the residues on your hands, and they're very fragile and quick, making a dangerous fall likely.

I don't know what's available in Japan, but Euphrynichus amanica is very fragile (care wise) wild caught and exceedingly rare captive bred. Heterophrynus males often have impressive pedipalps, as do Euphrynichis bacillifer males (though E. amanica takes the cake). Damon male palps are also reasonably long. However, pictures don't do justice to the palps of even female Heterophrynus--they're longer than the body when extended. The only large genus with relatively short palps is Phrynus, I think. Phrynichus has nice palps, too, but I don't know a thing about care or availability.

I definitely recommend getting an amblypygid. They're active all night under red lights, as opposed to scorpions and vinegaroons, which I believe tend to sit around. They're so alien looking with the massive limbs on a body that's small in relation to them (but large compared to most other arachnids). Basically they're super cool. You might find you actually want to breed once you have one--I know I did

 

[AnimalNewbie]

Don’t know about amblypygid but I can speak for vinegaroon and AFS. Vinegaroon aren’t that active but look stunning and burrow. My Asian forest scorpion is a nut and is constantly outside strolling around instead of making a burrow or ever using his hide but is pretty defensively. You should be a hold to get hold of an Asian forest scorpion but not sure about others in Japan. Always nice to have people from other countries as well

 

[aphono]

Damon diadema would be a good pick. Captive bred, generally good availability, care isn't difficult and the male pedipalps are of very decent size/length.

Not sure what's available in your country either, but in case Damon medius also turns up- right now the larger ones are WC. There are a few CB babies starting to show up.

If you had the choice between the two species, I'd suggest the diadema. Haven't take care of Heterophrynus yet(dearly would love to change that!) so can't give a comparison.

 

[Mariamatic]

First off--don't handle them. It's a sensory overload for their very chemosensitive whips to deal with all the residues on your hands, and they're very fragile and quick, making a dangerous fall likely.

I don't know what's available in Japan, but Euphrynichus amanica is very fragile (care wise) wild caught and exceedingly rare captive bred. Heterophrynus males often have impressive pedipalps, as do Euphrynichis bacillifer males (though E. amanica takes the cake). Damon male palps are also reasonably long. However, pictures don't do justice to the palps of even female Heterophrynus--they're longer than the body when extended. The only large genus with relatively short palps is Phrynus, I think. Phrynichus has nice palps, too, but I don't know a thing about care or availability.

I definitely recommend getting an amblypygid. They're active all night under red lights, as opposed to scorpions and vinegaroons, which I believe tend to sit around. They're so alien looking with the massive limbs on a body that's small in relation to them (but large compared to most other arachnids). Basically they're super cool. You might find you actually want to breed once you have one--I know I did

Thanks for the info! I'm surprised to hear that handling is bad for them since I've seen a million videos of people handling them and putting them on their faces and such. Looking into all those species, none are quite as majestic as E. Amanica but they all look pretty neat, especially the males with their longer pedipalps. Which do you think might be a good choice for a beginner?

Don’t know about amblypygid but I can speak for vinegaroon and AFS. Vinegaroon aren’t that active but look stunning and burrow. My Asian forest scorpion is a nut and is constantly outside strolling around instead of making a burrow or ever using his hide but is pretty defensively. You should be a hold to get hold of an Asian forest scorpion but not sure about others in Japan. Always nice to have people from other countries as well

I probably will end up with all of them eventually lol. They're all super fascinating but the amblys are just so unique and exotic looking I'm really drawn to them. You'd probably be surprised how much I can get ahold of here, there are practically no laws in regards to importation or keeping of exotic animals so some really odd stuff tends to crop up. The problem is that they tend to be wild caught individuals and thus often are in poor health. Double for inverts because people here don't really consider them animals in the traditional sense and don't really tend to care about animal well-being anyway. We even have access to stuff you cant get easily in America anymore like proper Archispirostreptus gigas. But yeah I've seen fennec foxes and otters and massive Parsons chameleons and stuff on sale at animal expos before. I've seen a million giant scorpions and vinegaroons for sure and I'm 100% confident I could find some Damon species and other common ones, probably even E. amanica with some patience, but likely wild caught and half dead

Damon diadema would be a good pick. Captive bred, generally good availability, care isn't difficult and the male pedipalps are of very decent size/length.

Not sure what's available in your country either, but in case Damon medius also turns up- right now the larger ones are WC. There are a few CB babies starting to show up.

If you had the choice between the two species, I'd suggest the diadema. Haven't take care of Heterophrynus yet(dearly would love to change that!) so can't give a comparison.

Yeah, D. diadema definitely seems to be the most common species for pets, and they do look pretty neat. I tend to end up going for species that are more out there and less commonly seen just because I like the uniquness of them, but I'm definitely looking into the Damon since they do seem neat also!

 

[schmiggle]

Thanks for the info! I'm surprised to hear that handling is bad for them since I've seen a million videos of people handling them and putting them on their faces and such. Looking into all those species, none are quite as majestic as E. Amanica but they all look pretty neat, especially the males with their longer pedipalps. Which do you think might be a good choice for a beginner?

Yes, I've seen those too. I don't think it's bad in terms of their long-term health or anything, but it's basically a very easy way to startle them, and they move VERY fast. You'll swear an amblypygid can teleport around a log once you've seen them. If you drop it, it'll be quite hard to catch, and you're also likely to injure it if it moves quickly around your hand.

Look, having said all that, Michael Seiter, who is one of the world experts on amblypygi I believe (I wish he was around here more often), has definitely handled his, based on some older pictures, although I have no idea how often. I would certainly recommend against it until you have some experience with how quickly they move, at a minimum.

When I was inexperienced with my Heterophrynus batesii, I tried to handle her several times. She didn't at all want to get on my hand--she could very easily tell it wasn't wood or anything similar--and the one time I convinced her to, she moved so fast that she was behind my back before I knew it. I was convinced she was gone, but I somehow managed to get her back in her enclosure. That was the last time I tried that. But I'm also kind of a klutz, so other people probably don't have that problem as much

Good choices for a beginner:

• Damon diadema
• Damon medius
• Heterophrynus batesii
• Paraphrynus mexicanus
• Phrynus marginemaculatus (I'm guessing you won't want this one, even if it's readily available)
  
• Phrynus barbadensis

There's probably way more, but most species are very rare, even though many of them probably have basically similar care. @wizentrop and @Banshee05 might have more advice on this point. The ones I know are delicate are wild-caught Euphrynichus bacillifer (if you can find captive bred then I'd say get those) and Stygophrynus sp. I would guess that other Heterophrynus and Damon are mostly pretty easy. Phrynus is a relatively large genus with a variety of forms and sizes, so I don't want to generalize there.

 

[AnimalNewbie]

Thanks for the info! I'm surprised to hear that handling is bad for them since I've seen a million videos of people handling them and putting them on their faces and such. Looking into all those species, none are quite as majestic as E. Amanica but they all look pretty neat, especially the males with their longer pedipalps. Which do you think might be a good choice for a beginner?



I probably will end up with all of them eventually lol. They're all super fascinating but the amblys are just so unique and exotic looking I'm really drawn to them. You'd probably be surprised how much I can get ahold of here, there are practically no laws in regards to importation or keeping of exotic animals so some really odd stuff tends to crop up. The problem is that they tend to be wild caught individuals and thus often are in poor health. Double for inverts because people here don't really consider them animals in the traditional sense and don't really tend to care about animal well-being anyway. We even have access to stuff you cant get easily in America anymore like proper Archispirostreptus gigas. But yeah I've seen fennec foxes and otters and massive Parsons chameleons and stuff on sale at animal expos before. I've seen a million giant scorpions and vinegaroons for sure and I'm 100% confident I could find some Damon species and other common ones, probably even E. amanica with some patience, but likely wild caught and half dead



Yeah, D. diadema definitely seems to be the most common species for pets, and they do look pretty neat. I tend to end up going for species that are more out there and less commonly seen just because I like the uniquness of them, but I'm definitely looking into the Damon since they do seem neat also!

Just a side question where do you buy inverts in Tokyo. I visit yearly so it’s be nice to see some inverts

 

[Mariamatic]

Yes, I've seen those too. I don't think it's bad in terms of their long-term health or anything, but it's basically a very easy way to startle them, and they move VERY fast. You'll swear an amblypygid can teleport around a log once you've seen them. If you drop it, it'll be quite hard to catch, and you're also likely to injure it if it moves quickly around your hand.

Look, having said all that, Michael Seiter, who is one of the world experts on amblypygi I believe (I wish he was around here more often), has definitely handled his, based on some older pictures, although I have no idea how often. I would certainly recommend against it until you have some experience with how quickly they move, at a minimum.

When I was inexperienced with my Heterophrynus batesii, I tried to handle her several times. She didn't at all want to get on my hand--she could very easily tell it wasn't wood or anything similar--and the one time I convinced her to, she moved so fast that she was behind my back before I knew it. I was convinced she was gone, but I somehow managed to get her back in her enclosure. That was the last time I tried that. But I'm also kind of a klutz, so other people probably don't have that problem as much

Good choices for a beginner:

• Damon diadema
• Damon medius
• Heterophrynus batesii
• Paraphrynus mexicanus
• Phrynus marginemaculatus (I'm guessing you won't want this one, even if it's readily available)
  
• Phrynus barbadensis

There's probably way more, but most species are very rare, even though many of them probably have basically similar care. @wizentrop and @Banshee05 might have more advice on this point. The ones I know are delicate are wild-caught Euphrynichus bacillifer (if you can find captive bred then I'd say get those) and Stygophrynus sp. I would guess that other Heterophrynus and Damon are mostly pretty easy. Phrynus is a relatively large genus with a variety of forms and sizes, so I don't want to generalize there.

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. Though I saw somewhere a woman who said she lets her young kids play with her amblypygi and they are really docile and chill, so I wonder if it varies by species/individual. Like I said, I probably wouldn't be handling it that much anyway other than for rehousing/cleaning or if someone comes over and wants to have a look. A luckily I live in a small apartment without many crevices or holes for it to hide in if it did escape anyway.

Of the ones you posted, D. medius is awesome! I also love the male H. batesii. In fact I think P. marginemaculatus is adorable as well, but it's not quite the aesthetic I'm looking for for my first whip, but maybe my next one can be one of the short-armed types! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look out for those 2 species for sure, and if all else fails I know I can get ahold of a diadema.

Just a side question where do you buy inverts in Tokyo. I visit yearly so it’s be nice to see some inverts

It would depend on what time you come over! The best place is usually at expos or events, usually they are reptiles and inverts combined. One of the big ones is Blackout which has lots of dates throughout the year in different parts of the country, and a lot of them in the Tokyo/Saitama/Yokohama area. There is also Tokyo Reptiles World which has a winter and summer date. Probably few more. Depending on what types of inverts you're into, there are a couple shops in central and west Tokyo that specialize in beetles. Rhino and stag beetles are pretty popular with kids and beetle otaku here, so in the summer you can see them for sale in lots of department stores or random home stores. My friend even found one of those claw machine games with various rare beetles as the prizes. Reptiles Club Omiya is a reptile-centric exotic pet store but they also occasionally have some unique inverts, that's where I found my ghost mantis pair. You can also mail order lots of crazy stuff on yahoo auctions which is like Japanese ebay, though I'm not sure how much I would trust that. They have a couple amblys up there now actually. The biggest problem with the invert market here is that a lot of the individuals you'll see for sale are wild caught, dubiously sourced, and labeled with made up japanicized common names and no scientific name, so it can be hard to figure out exactly what you're getting and from where. Finding captive bred specimens is a bit trickier depending on what you're looking for.

 

[AnimalNewbie]

Ah, yeah, that makes sense. Though I saw somewhere a woman who said she lets her young kids play with her amblypygi and they are really docile and chill, so I wonder if it varies by species/individual. Like I said, I probably wouldn't be handling it that much anyway other than for rehousing/cleaning or if someone comes over and wants to have a look. A luckily I live in a small apartment without many crevices or holes for it to hide in if it did escape anyway.

Of the ones you posted, D. medius is awesome! I also love the male H. batesii. In fact I think P. marginemaculatus is adorable as well, but it's not quite the aesthetic I'm looking for for my first whip, but maybe my next one can be one of the short-armed types! Thanks for the suggestions, I'll look out for those 2 species for sure, and if all else fails I know I can get ahold of a diadema.




It would depend on what time you come over! The best place is usually at expos or events, usually they are reptiles and inverts combined. One of the big ones is Blackout which has lots of dates throughout the year in different parts of the country, and a lot of them in the Tokyo/Saitama/Yokohama area. There is also Tokyo Reptiles World which has a winter and summer date. Probably few more. Depending on what types of inverts you're into, there are a couple shops in central and west Tokyo that specialize in beetles. Rhino and stag beetles are pretty popular with kids and beetle otaku here, so in the summer you can see them for sale in lots of department stores or random home stores. My friend even found one of those claw machine games with various rare beetles as the prizes. Reptiles Club Omiya is a reptile-centric exotic pet store but they also occasionally have some unique inverts, that's where I found my ghost mantis pair. You can also mail order lots of crazy stuff on yahoo auctions which is like Japanese ebay, though I'm not sure how much I would trust that. They have a couple amblys up there now actually. The biggest problem with the invert market here is that a lot of the individuals you'll see for sale are wild caught, dubiously sourced, and labeled with made up japanicized common names and no scientific name, so it can be hard to figure out exactly what you're getting and from where. Finding captive bred specimens is a bit trickier depending on what you're looking for.

Well my family doesn’t need to see beetles me and my family go to visit my parents and our neighbor actually breeds the rhinoceros beetle or kabuto-mushi
Super nice too and let’s me see his collection. Too bad they I’m pretty sure most species are illegal to keep in USA.
Thanks for the response!
You shouldn’t worry too much about wildcaught al though it is better not to support them most species are actually wildcaught and many people purchase them and have started to breed them producing captive bred Ts

 

[Mariamatic]

Well my family doesn’t need to see beetles me and my family go to visit my parents and our neighbor actually breeds the rhinoceros beetle or kabuto-mushi
Super nice too and let’s me see his collection. Too bad they I’m pretty sure most species are illegal to keep in USA.
Thanks for the response!
You shouldn’t worry too much about wildcaught al though it is better not to support them most species are actually wildcaught and many people purchase them and have started to breed them producing captive bred Ts

Oh nice! The bigger problem than the specimens being wild caught is that they are really poorly labeled a lot of the time and the sellers also have no idea what half the animals are or care requirements or any sort of info, because they just like take an expedition to Malaysia or Thailand and grab a bunch of bugs from the forest and bring them back to sell. I was looking at some giant pill millipedes a guy had for sale and it was just labeled "Mega Ball" so I asked him like, "what species of millipede is this?" and his response was "It's not a millipede it's a pillbug." As if there are isopods the size of an emerald pill millipede. Everything is always just labeled "Giant praying mantis", "Millipede from Malaysia" or some made up faux english common names. They rarely list the species names so you just have to sort of eyeball it and try to match it with google images, or buy it and then go home and post it on a forum and hope the verdict isn't "Oh yeah that species is nearly impossible to keep in captivity and it's gonna die" since you can't look up care requirements without knowing the species.