ID, please

[peterbourbon]

Hey,

yes, i personally think the second centipede is a Scolopendra multidens, based on the taxonomical features we have seen here so far.

It would be nice to see the same 20th legs from the first centipede we assumed to be cingulatoides. If it features a tarsal spine on 20th legs then it can't be S. multidens and hence must be S.s. cingulatoides somehow (..and then it may be a proof that S.s. cingulatoides really exists).

If it lacks tarsal spines on 20th legpair (maybe you can check both legs) then we have a problem...or better: I could only assume by location if it's cingulatoides or not (and maybe Attems took S. multidens for S. s. cingulatoides...and cingulatoides is only a different local color morph of S. multidens...but i'm only guessing).

Since differences in subspinipes-subspecies seem sometimes weird and irrational (I'd personally synonymize mutilans with nominate, cause there is no real difference besides coloration and "paramedian sutures don't reach the end of each sternite completely") i don't wonder about the actual confusion between multidens, s. cingulatoides and s. japonica.

I have a Scolopendra subspinipes subspinipes from Malaysia that also lacks a tarsal spine on 20th legs on one side, but the other leg features it (but ofc has way thinner and longer terminal legs) - so most of the differences between those subspecies are based on variable taxonomic features (except lack of ventral prefemoral spines in dehaani).

Regards
Turgut

 

[西行寺 幽々子]

the first pede have the same features , have no tarsal spine on 20th legs
that is the 20th leg both each side

and the 19th leg have a clearly tarsal spine

sorry for bad pic, beacuse this pede it small, i'm hard to take photos

 

[peterbourbon]

Hi,

thanks for the nice pics, i suspected that it lacks tarsal spines on 20th legs.

Based on distribution and size (7.5cm, guess it's bigger you said) i don't think it's Scolopendra susbpinipes japonica.

So we're stuck on Scolopendra multidens or Scolopendra subspinipes cingulatoides.

Again: I think S. subspinipes cingulatoides and especially description of S. multidens must be revised (and distribution maybe expanded to Vietnam) - suppose they are somehow different colorations of the same species. I personally don't see documented differences.

Sorry to let you being stuck like this, but i guess we all made some interesting findings in identification process.

As far as i know the last taxonomic work on S. multidens was done in
Chao J.-L., Chang H.-W. (2003) "The scolopendromorph centipedes (Chilopoda) of Taiwan"
and they removed S. multidens from subspecies status of S. subspinipes because their males lack genital appendages (in opposite to S. subspinipes). I'm not sure if that taxonomical work is adequate enough to justify the replacement step.

Regards
Turgut

 

[西行寺 幽々子]

i still have some question about it
7.5cm， i don't know what it mean, but two of my pede more longer than it
first pede, mine are 12cm and 13cm, and so far the biggest one be caught is 15CM(so maybe the max size is more long), the second i said it is very big, both red leg or orange leg, more is longer than 20CM(than is why i think it is dehanni before) , and multidens can easy grow 20CM too

another features let me mind, the second pede have a red head, i feel that is a important features to show it is a multidens(all the multidens should have a red head), but the first the head and body have the same colour, and its body colour is very like a Sc. sub.subspinipes( the side of its body is dark gray, that is same with Sc. sub.subspinipes"Philippines"or "Malaysia", but other Sc. subspinipes(like dehanni or mutilans) are white),and the antenna have a special colour different from anyother part of its body

my idea is the two pede should different species, first is Sc.sub.cingulatoides(maybe others), second is Sc.multidens(dark colourful)

by the way,now, multidens be sold in china are all be caught in southwest of china, i have mark it by red round in the map, very nearly Vietnam, Burma
, and laos, so why multidens can't distribution in Vietnam? and i know the same colour multidens live in japan and Okinawa islands too(i mark it by blue round)

 

[peterbourbon]

Hi,

i agree totally and i also excluded S.s.japonica because of size and distribution (maybe it even doesn't exist and the myriapodologists only examined young specimen of S. multidens in a japanese colorform), i think the second one is most probably S. multidens (darker color form).

Regarding the first one: I'm not sure if it's S. multidens or S. subspinipes cingulatoides - coloration is not a reliable feature and you can't distinguish (sub)species only by coloration. Attems does not say anything about the coloration of cingulatoides, he just states the thick terminal legs that you can also see in S. multidens - hence i only see they differ in coloration of headplate. Personally i'd say that's not enough to distinguish a subspecies from even another species.

If i had both pedes in my collection i would label them as
(1) Scolopendra cf. subspinipes cingulatoides
(2) Scolopendra multidens

At the moment I find it's not possible to say exactly what the first pede is (multidens or s. cingulatoides) - we need a reliable revision of Scolopendra subspinipes - species.

Regards
Turgut

 

[西行寺 幽々子]

thanks for your help and all the information you give me

Scolopendra cf. subspinipes cingulatoides
Scolopendra multidens
i think that is a good idea too, i will correct the ID of my collection

at the beginning, i just feel i mistake a ID of a old pede, then go to here to ask, but next, it lead so many question and do many discussion

but at least, i correct two of my low-level error, i think that is enough

thank you again