Hypothetical biological control question with stick insects.

Schledog

Arachnosquire
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
112
So in my woods I’ve got a huge problem with invasive blackberries. If I were to release a bunch of stick insects into the patch of blackberries in the spring to eat all the blackberries and then collect a few in the fall and leave the rest outside to die in cold Minnesota winter would this be effective at controlling the blackberries and also eliminate all stick insects? THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL
 

The Seraph

Arachnolord
Joined
Sep 14, 2018
Messages
601
So in my woods I’ve got a huge problem with invasive blackberries. If I were to release a bunch of stick insects into the patch of blackberries in the spring to eat all the blackberries and then collect a few in the fall and leave the rest outside to die in cold Minnesota winter would this be effective at controlling the blackberries and also eliminate all stick insects? THIS IS HYPOTHETICAL
It might kill off the blackberry but it would also introduce an invasive species. They might end up farther south or they might survive the winter. You cannot tell. It is like fighting a gasoline fire with gallons upon gallons of hydrochloric acid. Sure it might put out the fire but you run into another problem.
 

mantisfan101

Arachnoprince
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
1,755
It might kill off the blackberry but it would also introduce an invasive species. They might end up farther south or they might survive the winter. You cannot tell. It is like fighting a gasoline fire with gallons upon gallons of hydrochloric acid. Sure it might put out the fire but you run into another problem.
Stick insects afaik can be somewhat adaptable and will begin consuming other plant species if their original diet runs out. Manual removal would be much better.
 

chanda

Arachnoking
Old Timer
Joined
Jun 27, 2010
Messages
2,229
Many stick insects have a very long egg phase in their life cycle, allowing the eggs to survive conditions such as extended periods of cold, heat, or drought that the insects themselves could not, then hatching when conditions are more agreeable. The reality is that the stick insects would eat the blackberry leaves - but would be unlikely to have any significant impact on the blackberry plants, unless you released thousands of them. Healthy mature plants are able to survive a significant amount of insect feeding. It may set their growth back a bit, but probably would not kill them - at least not in the numbers you need, to control the invasive bushes.

As for the insects themselves, if they are a non-native species, you should definitely not consider releasing them. While it is possible that the winter would kill them off, there is always the chance that it would not. There are, however, native stick insects (the Northern Walkingstick, Diapheromera femorata, which survives the Minnesota winters just fine) that you could release (assuming you can find/catch any) - though how well they would control the blackberries is, at best, questionable. It would take an awful lot of them to make any significant impact at all.

Your best bet for controlling the blackberries is either going to be chemical sprays (herbicides) or old fashioned pulling/digging/cutting to get rid of them.
 

mantisfan101

Arachnoprince
Joined
Dec 26, 2018
Messages
1,755
Many stick insects have a very long egg phase in their life cycle, allowing the eggs to survive conditions such as extended periods of cold, heat, or drought that the insects themselves could not, then hatching when conditions are more agreeable. The reality is that the stick insects would eat the blackberry leaves - but would be unlikely to have any significant impact on the blackberry plants, unless you released thousands of them. Healthy mature plants are able to survive a significant amount of insect feeding. It may set their growth back a bit, but probably would not kill them - at least not in the numbers you need, to control the invasive bushes.

As for the insects themselves, if they are a non-native species, you should definitely not consider releasing them. While it is possible that the winter would kill them off, there is always the chance that it would not. There are, however, native stick insects (the Northern Walkingstick, Diapheromera femorata, which survives the Minnesota winters just fine) that you could release (assuming you can find/catch any) - though how well they would control the blackberries is, at best, questionable. It would take an awful lot of them to make any significant impact at all.

Your best bet for controlling the blackberries is either going to be chemical sprays (herbicides) or old fashioned pulling/digging/cutting to get rid of them.
Manual removal would be best. Also D. Femorata also conmonly live high up on oak(?) trees which is why they are so seldom encountered so I’m pretty sure that they’d end up moving up higher.
 

schmiggle

Arachnoking
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,220
Is it really hypothetical or just hypothetical if it goes badly, so you can have plausible deniability? Lol

I wouldn't, for the reasons stated above.
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
11,048
So in my woods I’ve got a huge problem with invasive blackberries.
One part laundry detergent to 10 parts sodium carbonate sprayed liberally and repeatedly on all the leaves of the blackberry plant. Chemically burns the plant up and degrades into the environment without latent toxic effects. You must be diligent with the sprayings. Alternatively cutting the individual plants back to the roots, wait for new growth to appear and give it a selective good misting of glyphosate will kill off the entire plant and roots.
 

Schledog

Arachnosquire
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
112
Is it really hypothetical or just hypothetical if it goes badly, so you can have plausible deniability? Lol

I wouldn't, for the reasons stated above.
Yeah it was an actual hypothetical question. I was just thinking during math class and I was like “huh, I wonder what would happen if...” I realized it would be controversial but I asked anyway.
 

SonsofArachne

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
961
Many attempts to control pests/weeds by introducing non-native species have been made, often by governments. Most ended badly and we have many non-native species in the US to show for it.
 

Schledog

Arachnosquire
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
112
Yeah like how when the US introduced rosy wolf snails into Hawaii to try to control the giant African land snails and instead the wolf snails ate a bunch of native ones.
 

Schledog

Arachnosquire
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
112
Super illegal.
And also for those of you saying this stuff, I KNOW. I don’t want to be rude or anything and I know you were just trying to protect your inverts but I stated multiple times it was hypothetical.
Thank you @The Snark for the recipe, I hate using glyphosate plus they are right next to a lake so I will try to use your mixture. My short MN springtime’s are already used fighting garlic mustard, buckthorn, burdock, and also caring for natives so you can tell I’m passionate about this stuff. I WOULD NEVER RELEASE A FOREIGN SPECIES INTO A NEW HABBITAT.
 

schmiggle

Arachnoking
Joined
Nov 3, 2013
Messages
2,220
And also for those of you saying this stuff, I KNOW. I don’t want to be rude or anything and I know you were just trying to protect your inverts but I stated multiple times it was hypothetical.
Usually when people ask hypothetical questions like this it sounds like they're asking a practical question as a hypothetical so that people don't get mad at them. No one wants you to go ahead and release stick insects in the environment, so better safe than sorry.
 

pannaking22

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
4,226
My short MN springtime’s are already used fighting garlic mustard, buckthorn, burdock, and also caring for natives so you can tell I’m passionate about this stuff. I WOULD NEVER RELEASE A FOREIGN SPECIES INTO A NEW HABBITAT.
Ugh, freaking garlic mustard. I hate that stuff. I spent two springs trying to control it in various habitats and I now hate it with a burning passion. Same with the honeysuckle and Asian pear, though those I'm slightly more ok with since I didn't have to spend as much time controlling them (and it was easier with them since I could use handsaw or chainsaw, plus painting the stump with herbicide). One boss didn't want me using any chemicals or motorized tools, so I was basically using a modified gold club to remove acres and acres of garlic mustard. The next boss was more open to other control methods, but he also wasn't as gung-ho about having me spend three solid weeks removing the stuff when it'd come back the next year anyway.
 

SonsofArachne

Arachnoangel
Joined
Dec 10, 2017
Messages
961
Ugh, freaking garlic mustard. I hate that stuff. I spent two springs trying to control it in various habitats and I now hate it with a burning passion. Same with the honeysuckle and Asian pear, though those I'm slightly more ok with since I didn't have to spend as much time controlling them (and it was easier with them since I could use handsaw or chainsaw, plus painting the stump with herbicide). One boss didn't want me using any chemicals or motorized tools, so I was basically using a modified gold club to remove acres and acres of garlic mustard. The next boss was more open to other control methods, but he also wasn't as gung-ho about having me spend three solid weeks removing the stuff when it'd come back the next year anyway.
Garlic mustard - pull 20 plants, 100 more spring up a week later (seems like it, anyway).
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
Old Timer
Joined
Aug 8, 2005
Messages
11,048
I hate using glyphosate plus they are right next to a lake so I will try to use your mixture.
Understandable and I agree. I resort to glyphosate under very controlled circumstances. In the case of blackberrys and undersireables I attempt to pull the plant out or cut it off at the dirt and put a bamboo marker stick next to it. When it starts to grow back a tiny spritz of glyphosate is all it takes. I bought a liter bottle back arounds 2010 and it's still 3/4 full. Leave wholesale spraying of large plants to the irresponsible or poorly educated. All about diligence. I've got about 150-200 mulberry seedlings/starts to deal with right now. Got to buy a new spray bottle. They plug up or quit after a few months with that stuff just sitting in them.
The sodium carbonate treatment is simply replicating the environment west of Furnace Creek. Alkali flats. To the best of my knowledge the Himalayas has left it's blackberrys ill prepared for that environment.
 

Schledog

Arachnosquire
Joined
Nov 8, 2018
Messages
112
Ugh, freaking garlic mustard. I hate that stuff.
At least you can eat it. I eat it’s leaves in salads, plain, and in pesto and the seeds can be used as a pepper substitute. If you can’t beat it, eat it. But in all seriousness it’s the bane of my existence. At least I don’t have any creeping charlie.
 

pannaking22

Arachnoemperor
Old Timer
Joined
Nov 25, 2011
Messages
4,226
At least you can eat it. I eat it’s leaves in salads, plain, and in pesto and the seeds can be used as a pepper substitute. If you can’t beat it, eat it. But in all seriousness it’s the bane of my existence. At least I don’t have any creeping charlie.
I never actually got to try it, I was too busy trying to remove it and after a while I hated it enough that I didn't want anything to do with it lol. You have to eat the leaves fairly early on right? I didn't know that about the seeds either, how are those?
 

KevinsWither

Arachnodemon
Joined
Jul 11, 2014
Messages
671
Please don't release them. Hell don't even release animals into the wild in general.
 
Top