Huge Phoneutria Nigrivinter

[Sheri]

Just a note...

YES, this belongs in the Other Arachnids forum. I've moved it... but when you see that, know that, and post that... please take the time to report the post to alert a mod that something needs to be moved and/or edited.

A lot more efficient than posting to that effect and then waiting for one of to stumble onto it. Its that little exclamation mark in the bottom left hand corner.

Thank you and please continue this most fascinating discussion.

 

[Scorpendra]

Glad to see this thread where it belongs.

I agree with you Crotalus, however i don't think she's far from being one of the most venomous species. Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.

not only is that a myth, but the harvestman can't be the most venomous spider, since it is not a spider, and has no venom.

Is it so difficult to understand that Guinness book is not a reliable source of information?

/Lelle

i did not say it was correct, i just said that it has the brazilian wandering spider as Earth's most venomous spider. it is relevant to the conversation. and also, it is one of the most venomous, and has the largest venom glands of all spiders. Guinness, i guarantee, is not blowing complete smoke.

and on a side note, this site has some nice pics of phoneutrias fera (they believe) and nigriventer. as well as some other species'. is it me, or is that tarantula an O. Auratum? (it's probably me since an exaustive googling reserach only gave me one picture.)

 

[Crotalus]

Anyways, then drop by drop, which is the most venomous species in the world ?

Should be Latrodectus mactans. However, since australian funnel web spider Atrax and Hadronyche) venom arent very effective on mice its hard to say for sure. The neurotoxic component in Phoneutria venom are for sure among the most effective.

and on a side note, this site has some nice pics of phoneutrias fera (they believe) and nigriventer. as well as some other species'. is it me, or is that tarantula an O. Auratum? (it's probably me since an exaustive googling reserach only gave me one picture.)

That is my site and my nigriventer. O. auratum?

/Lelle

 

[Cpt.nemO]

Ok thank you all, I thought the sid. funnel web wasn't far also. Anyways anyone here got a bite report of a ver venomous species ??

 

[nightbreed]

The spider genus Phoneutria is a dangerous one yes. The numbers you are quoting are the same as in Guinness Book of Records and are not a reliable source of information at all.
No spider got a LD50 of 0.006 mg, that would mean its even more toxic then inland taipan (0.025 mg)... Which is not true. LD50 for P. nigriventer is 0.3 mg according to a german article (Herzig, 2004). Besides, LD50 dont mean nothing at all except toxicity on mice really.

/Lelle

The info I quoted came from an article in the latest BTS journal, I would never trust any info from the Guinness Book of records, but thanks for pointing out that the information is wrong.

I'm pretty sure I mentioned in my post that the toxicity on mice has no bearing on the toxicity in humans :?

Just out of interest what is the LD50 for L.mactans? because I only posted the info because it compared the two and mactans had been mentioned earlier in the thread.

 

[Crotalus]

According to the article its 5.5 mg. However, this figures should be taken with a large dose of salt..

/Lelle

 

[nightbreed]

According to the article its 5.5 mg. However, this figures should be taken with a large dose of salt..

/Lelle

Thanks man.
So P.nigriventer venom seems to be quite a bit more toxic than L.mactans, to mice at least, am I right?

 

[Cpt.nemO]

you are definately at least LD50 4.0 Man the wondering spider is no joke.

 

[edesign]

Man the wondering spider is no joke.

wAndering spider

 

[becca81]

Anyways drop by drop, daddy long legs takes the first place, however, their fangs are to small to punch through human skin.

Definite myth. I think that one is even debunked on snopes.com.

Heh, I do remember hearing that in grade school when boys would run up on the playground with daddy-long-legs and tell the girls that.

 

[Crotalus]

Thanks man.
So P.nigriventer venom seems to be quite a bit more toxic than L.mactans, to mice at least, am I right?

LD50 is not a good way to be sure how toxic a venom are. Its a small indicator, BUT all depends on how the LD50 test is done (4 ways) and also very much by who.
In that particular test yes, but in others no. In the same test A. robustus had 10-17,5...
To sum it up - LD50 is no good, Guinness book of records even worse, Phoneutria got a potent venom.

/Lelle

 

[nightbreed]

LD50 is not a good way to be sure how toxic a venom are. Its a small indicator, BUT all depends on how the LD50 test is done (4 ways) and also very much by who.
In that particular test yes, but in others no. In the same test A. robustus had 10-17,5...
To sum it up - LD50 is no good, Guinness book of records even worse, Phoneutria got a potent venom.

/Lelle

cool, thanks for the info, I dont have a clue when it comes to this sort of stuff, thats why I love this forum I learn something new everyday

 

[Scorpendra]

That is my site and my nigriventer. O. auratum?

/Lelle

really? good job on the pictures

O. Auratum is also called the brazilian slender. scroll down, it's above the two tarantulas above the Phormictopus'. as i've said, the tarantula on your site is probably something entirely different. one day, i hope that i can keep my mouth shut.

 

[Crotalus]

Molitor, I have no clue what you talking about. Whats a "O. auratum"?
If you think something is wrong ID - send me the link to my picture so I know what you talking about.

Ok I found the O. auratum, but still clueless what that got to do with anything here?

/Lelle

 

[Scorpendra]

i brought it up because i thought the tarantula on your site is one, and your site contained pictures of P. Nigriventer.

this one

getting back on tract, having to do with me, this section of gea galleries has pics of fera, boliviensis and kaiserlingi.

EDIT: okay, glad that is cleared up and there is one less wandering spider name i have to remeber.

 

[Crotalus]

Molitor,
Ok but thats a australian theraphosid, photographed in Cairns so its not O. auratum. And the picture should be in the theraphosid gallery...
BTW, keyserlingi is not valid anymore - its synonym with nigriventer.

/Lelle

 

[Adnan]

What am I seeing here? ... ...

Now take a look at the size of this Phoneutria Nigrivinter. If the guy gets bitten, well you probably know what will happen to him (a few minutes a life left). I just posted asking whether he has the antivenom in the fridge (just now), but i really think he doesn't.

Please... Its just a spider! They are fast and agressive, but hardly lethal. Any snake from the genus Bothrops (very commom here in SP) are far more dangerous...

BTW, remember i mentioned that i few crazy ones breed this species well take a look at this picture. 1 day after the first ling left the egg sac. Just as a reminder, from all of this only 14 are left, all of the rest escaped acording to the person who did it. So u imagine the danger that dealling with this is. He might be putting others peoples lifes in danger , specially children and elder ones.

Hahahaha, what??? What you are smoking?? Dude, I have only 4 spiders of the eggsac of the picture, the rest I let go free in a wooded area here in SP (the area where the adult male was found). And yes, some escaped, but only few of the second eggsac - ecloded in only 28 days, in the adult female enclosure.

Secondly, about the slings running away and surviving, the author still posts that every now and then he catches a wandering spider around the house (even though he lives in a region where this is highly improbable to occur). He has captured a few since the event and already quite large considering that the were slings when they scattered. I regard this as extremely dangerous, specially for the others around him, eg. family neighbours, pets etc. etc.

Who tell you this?? I´ve captured 4 and ALL they was in the first molt yet. Its hard to find small prey here in my house, so NO LARGE P. nigriventer spiderling wandering here.

And yes pics are from andan, and yes i asked him to use them.

Ask BEFORE posting!!! And I do not give permission for you to use my picture.

This one from the pic is an exception, it has been given a lot of easy prey so she doesnl't need to worry about beeing agile. But still imagine how much venom she can deposit if she bites Andan in the hand ??

That isn't my hand...isn't even one of my spiders. Please, READ the threads before posting.

humpf...

 

[Crotalus]

Please... Its just a spider! They are fast and agressive, but hardly lethal. Any snake from the genus Bothrops (very commom here in SP) are far more dangerous...

You cant compare a Bothrops with a wandering spider. And not lethal? People do die from bites even if its rare. People dont die from inland taipans either but that dont makes their venom less potent.

/Lelle

 

[Adnan]

You cant compare a Bothrops with a wandering spider. And not lethal? People do die from bites even if its rare. People dont die from inland taipans either but that dont makes their venom less potent.

/Lelle

Dont get me wrong.
I just saying: Here in State of São Paulo, Is far more easy to people die from a bite of a poisonous snake than a P. nigriventer... but some people have more fear of the spider.

And not lethal?

I´ve said "hardly lethal".

 

[Sheri]

clarification

I´ve said "hardly lethal".

Just curious... hardly meaning not often, or... like... kinda dead?