How's This Hornworm Enclosure?

[WildSpider]

What do you guys think of this Manduca quinquemaculata larvae enclosure? Aspen shavings are on the bottom for them to burrow into when they turn into pupae. I gave them also a water dish (bottle cap). The net top is being held on by clothes pins.

 

[WeightedAbyss75]

Should be fine. In my experience, these are super hardy. I have kept some in the tiny feeder container with gunk in them (brown food), and they not only survived, but made cacoons and turned into moths I rehoused my cacoons, but that may not be necessary. What are you feeding them?

 

[WildSpider]

Should be fine. In my experience, these are super hardy. I have kept some in the tiny feeder container with gunk in them (brown food), and they not only survived, but made cacoons and turned into moths I rehoused my cacoons, but that may not be necessary. What are you feeding them?

Awesome, glad to hear that . I have grape leaves on the bottom of the enclosure right now. I hope to add a few other things to have them try too. I think I saw online before that you can make your own brown goo (chow) and I was thinking of trying that too but I thought I'd see if they ate normal foods first. Have you had any luck with normal foods for yours?

 

[WeightedAbyss75]

I have not. The only ones I have ever raised were feeders that happened to turn into cacoons. Didn't really do any special care for them, which was very strange to me. I just looked at some of the "recipes" for the goo. Seems a little too pricey for me, especially when I believe it is commercially available for less I'm sure you have already done the research, but here seems to be a decent list of what they may eat. You can always experiment, as whether the foods make them toxic is of no concern if you want to only raise them

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/all-the-foods-hornworms-eat.60418/

 

[WildSpider]

I have not. The only ones I have ever raised were feeders that happened to turn into cacoons. Didn't really do any special care for them, which was very strange to me. I just looked at some of the "recipes" for the goo. Seems a little too pricey for me, especially when I believe it is commercially available for less I'm sure you have already done the research, but here seems to be a decent list of what they may eat. You can always experiment, as whether the foods make them toxic is of no concern if you want to only raise them

https://www.chameleonforums.com/threads/all-the-foods-hornworms-eat.60418/

Thanks ! Do you think this enclosure would be big enough for the two moths or should I get something larger?

 

[WeightedAbyss75]

Definitely big enough for two moths, but they don't eat btw. Depending on your area, you may want to either release them or feed them off, as they will sit and die otherwise.

 

[WildSpider]

Definitely big enough for two moths, but they don't eat btw. Depending on your area, you may want to either release them or feed them off, as they will sit and die otherwise.

You've been a huge help. Thank you so much .

 

[WildSpider]

Just a little update. The hornworms (which were raised on chow) are now taking carrots too . One has buried itself in the shavings and the other smaller one is still out and about.

 

[WildSpider]

Another update : All hornworms are preparing themselves to pupate. They've shrunk down, the two in the above enclosure have buried themselves, and they're the off-green. Hope it goes well!

 

[PidderPeets]

Just a little update. The hornworms (which were raised on chow) are now taking carrots too . One has buried itself in the shavings and the other smaller one is still out and about.

To be honest, you shouldn't even need the shavings. They don't need it to pupate. Perhaps it's just because I'm worried about how delicate caterpillar skin can be, but I would at least opt for something softer without edges such a cocofiber. Whenever I raise caterpillars, I usually don't use any substrate at all. It makes cleaning up all that poop a lot easier!

Edit: Also, good luck with the pupation and eventual eclosure! Just as a heads up, I always hang onto the pupa even if it seems like it's been much longer than their standard pupation time. I had one last summer that didn't eclose until winter! I thought for sure that it was dead but never got around to tossing the pupa. Then one night I was trying to go to bed and heard the unmistakable sound of fluttering sphinx moth wings in my room. Luckily, I had kept the pupa in an enclosure.

 

[WildSpider]

To be honest, you shouldn't even need the shavings. They don't need it to pupate. Perhaps it's just because I'm worried about how delicate caterpillar skin can be, but I would at least opt for something softer without edges such a cocofiber. Whenever I raise caterpillars, I usually don't use any substrate at all. It makes cleaning up all that poop a lot easier!

Edit: Also, good luck with the pupation and eventual eclosure! Just as a heads up, I always hang onto the pupa even if it seems like it's been much longer than their standard pupation time. I had one last summer that didn't eclose until winter! I thought for sure that it was dead but never got around to tossing the pupa. Then one night I was trying to go to bed and heard the unmistakable sound of fluttering sphinx moth wings in my room. Luckily, I had kept the pupa in an enclosure.

Oooh, I can't wait ! I want to hear the sound of fluttering sphinx moth wings! Thank you for the heads up.

I could go ahead and try and remove the shavings. I have unsuccessfully tried my hand at hornworms before and unfortunately they molded when I kept them in some peat moss. The container was definitely not well ventilated though and I had some fruit in the container with them so I'm pretty sure now that that was the real problem. When I get some time, hopefully I can try and transfer them to some peat moss in this new enclosure. The building I'm keeping them in right now is getting to be a bit on the chilly side so I'm guessing some sort of insulation might help them until they can hopefully be moved to the house (which is less chilly but still not too warm). I have my other two hornworms in the original container I bought them in. They were still munching on chow prior to pupating preparations. All hornworms are definitely looking better than last time (I'm so glad!). Keeping my fingers crossed.

 

[PidderPeets]

Oooh, I can't wait ! I want to hear the sound of fluttering sphinx moth wings! Thank you for the heads up.

I could go ahead and try and remove the shavings. I have unsuccessfully tried my hand at hornworms before and unfortunately they molded when I kept them in some peat moss. The container was definitely not well ventilated though and I had some fruit in the container with them so I'm pretty sure now that that was the real problem. When I get some time, hopefully I can try and transfer them to some peat moss in this new enclosure. The building I'm keeping them in right now is getting to be a bit on the chilly side so I'm guessing some sort of insulation might help them until they can hopefully be moved to the house (which is less chilly but still not too warm). I have my other two hornworms in the original container I bought them in. They were still munching on chow prior to pupating preparations. All hornworms are definitely looking better than last time (I'm so glad!). Keeping my fingers crossed.

They're very fun to watch as they fly and hover about as well! I'm sure you'll enjoy it If I get the chance tomorrow, I'll post a picture of one of the smaller setups I used the last time I raised a bunch of cecropia caterpillars to adulthood. Like Ts, I think it's easier and cheaper to just make your own enclosures for caterpillars. In my experience (which admittedly isn't a lot), caterpillars do best with moisture, ventilation, and proper cage maintenance. So I used a 1 gallon ice cream tub (yes, I ate all the ice cream ), cut out a medium sized square in the lid, and attached a type of fabric mesh to the hole so that there was a big enough hole for definite ventilation, but it still retained some of the humidity in the air.

With the cecropia, I taped a floral tube to the side of the tub and put a bit of water in it so I could just stick birch leaves in it to keep the food as fresh as possible. That would also work if you used stemmed food for the hornworms, but if not, you can just place it on the floor of the enclosure or in a shallow dish so it's less messy.

If the caterpillars already pupated without issue, you shouldn't need to remove the bedding. That stage as they're pupating and until they've fully hardened is when I'd be the most concerned that the bedding would damage them. If they're in their prepupa stage and immobile, I would honestly just move them to the top of the bedding for my own ease of mind. That way there's less risk of injury.

I can't remember the temps I kept my room last year when I had my last hornworm, but I think I kept it around 68. So anything in that range or higher should be fine.

I'm sure you know this since you mentioned yours were the typical off-green prepupa color, but just in case, I'll mention that they get worse and worse looking prior to pupating. They'll look sickly and dead.

I think that covers everything I can think of, minus the pictures which I'll provide when I get home. I couldn't help myself and bought some hornworms at petco today, so I'll be setting them up later.

I'm sure all will go well for you, but keep this thread updated!

 

[WildSpider]

If I get the chance tomorrow, I'll post a picture of one of the smaller setups I used the last time I raised a bunch of cecropia caterpillars to adulthood.

Oh gosh, those look gorgeous too! Absolutely can't wait to see them!

Like Ts, I think it's easier and cheaper to just make your own enclosures for caterpillars. In my experience (which admittedly isn't a lot), caterpillars do best with moisture, ventilation, and proper cage maintenance. So I used a 1 gallon ice cream tub (yes, I ate all the ice cream ), cut out a medium sized square in the lid, and attached a type of fabric mesh to the hole so that there was a big enough hole for definite ventilation, but it still retained some of the humidity in the air.

This is something I might actually be able to fit into my room. Maybe I can talk my parents into letting me keep it there.

So I used a 1 gallon ice cream tub (yes, I ate all the ice cream )

Yummy yummy, I like this idea .

I couldn't help myself and bought some hornworms at petco today, so I'll be setting them up later.

! There's no way you can leave me hanging now ...I'm gonna have to see those guys, lol .

 

[PidderPeets]

Oh gosh, those look gorgeous too! Absolutely can't wait to see them!

This is something I might actually be able to fit into my room. Maybe I can talk my parents into letting me keep it there.

Yummy yummy, I like this idea .

! There's no way you can leave me hanging now ...I'm gonna have to see those guys, lol .

I raised them a few years back. They did great and I even got some offspring out if a single pairing, but I couldn't release them due to regulations, and some serious incompetence on my end resulted in all the second generation caterpillars dying. So I've taken some time off raising big Saturniids, but I've raised a few hornworms and wild caterpillars here and there. Maybe next year I'll try raising some more though.

You can definitely fit a 1 gallon ice cream tub in your room. I recommend any of the Blue Bunny varieties

These are the best pictures I could get right now of the little cuties and the setup. I'm probably going to add some bamboo skewers into the food so they can get in and out of there of they so choose. And I'm definitely going to be scooping out the poop in the food. It's not a perfect setup right now (I'm going to have to keep scooping the poop out of food because of the petco setup), but it will support them without issue. It was supposed to only be 4 hornworms, but I apparently got a surprise 5th!

 

[WildSpider]

It was supposed to only be 4 hornworms, but I apparently got a surprise 5th!

The fifth is a nice surprise .

When I got mine (I think it was Petco too), I was able to get like 75% off of the whole group. Since they have to freeze them before they turn into the moths, they a lot of times discount them anyway at our petstores. Mine hadn't been marked up yet but by just mentioning it, I saved like $7.50.

Love your setup. The plants are a nice addition . How wide are the bamboo skewers you're using? I have kebab skewers, do you think those could substitute?

You can definitely fit a 1 gallon ice cream tub in your room. I recommend any of the Blue Bunny varieties

Blue Bunny sounds good .

 

[ErinM31]

Definitely big enough for two moths, but they don't eat btw. Depending on your area, you may want to either release them or feed them off, as they will sit and die otherwise.

Don’t the moths drink nectar? I was going to get a hummingbird feeder for mine (currently devideing where they want to pupate).

 

[WeightedAbyss75]

Don’t the moths drink nectar? I was going to get a hummingbird feeder for mine (currently devideing where they want to pupate).

I have never tried to feed mine. I ended up feeding them off. Not sure if they drink nectar, and I tried to look up their diet. Seems it can be very difficult to get them to eat anything that isn't from an actual flower. Hope you have luck though, would be great to have a diffinitive way to care for the adults

 

[ErinM31]

I have never tried to feed mine. I ended up feeding them off. Not sure if they drink nectar, and I tried to look up their diet. Seems it can be very difficult to get them to eat anything that isn't from an actual flower. Hope you have luck though, would be great to have a diffinitive way to care for the adults

I will be glad to share what I try and the results!

 

[houston]

I would look into the husbandry methods people who raise Death's Head Hawkmoths (Acherontia spp.) use! Hornworms and hawkmoths are from the same family (Sphingdae) and seem pretty similar. This video seems a nice overview, though I personally would use a smaller, deeper dish (maybe a soda bottle lid?) so the moth doesn't get too messy. A humming bird feeder may work, though I've heard that adult moths can be reluctant to feed unless they have their proboscis manually submerged.
Additionally, I believe the pictured species is actually Manduca sexta, the tobacco hornworm! M. quinquemaculata has white stripe margins and a blue horn, while M. sexta have a black margin and red horns.
I'm digging the laundry hamper idea! I've got some tobacco hornworm caterpillars as well and was intending to build them a 2ish ft square wood frame/ window mesh container, but going to the dollar store and cobbling some fabric hampers together sounds a lot easier and cheaper (not to mention softer for the moths). I might be concerned about the caterpillars chewing their way through the mesh long term, though-- I'd keep the caterpillars and pupae/moths separate.
A small plastic tub for the larvae and a collapsible mesh for pupae and moths would be good on space, as well. Until you can get offset generations I feel like you'd have the caterpillars much longer than the moths.

 

[ErinM31]

Once the hornworms got that pulsing line down their back, I moved them to a box of slightly damp substrate (coconut fiber). I regularly checked them and removed the few that did not successfully pupate (most did). I kept the substrate damp. The moths emerged several weeks later (I should have recorded how long exactly!). I found it important for them to have a nearly vertical piece of wood to climb on so that their wings could finish forming properly. I put the box of substrate in a twenty-gallon terrarium with a screen top. I provided them with sugar water in a hummingbird feeder but I do not know whether any of them used it. They did not live for many days (less than a week) and thus I think I must not have had mature males and females at the same time. One female laid copious eggs on the tomato plant I placed inside the terrarium, but none of these ever hatched.