How to ID your spider - Assistance requested for this thread.

[The Snark]

This thread is intended to become a sticky. The concise information required that will assist the people on AB to identify a spider. Looking for input here!
My suggestions (so far)

1. Location spider was found. The natural habitat as opposed to found in a shipping crate or similar.
2. Clear pictures: General shape - overhead and profile and if possible, a macro of the face showing the eye pattern. A bonus is spinnerets. Leg shape and length in comparison to the body can be very helpful.
3. Description. What is lacking in the photos must be verbally described instead. Use proper terminologies if possible.
4. Eyes. Over half the spiders of the world can be identified by the shape and placement of the eyes. Accuracy counts!
5. The web. Orb, cobweb, sheet, silk lined tunnel, no web apparent etc.

Of less importance:
6. Coloration. Can vary drastically within species.
7. Size of body and leg span. Again, can vary drastically.

So what am I forgetting? Am unclear on?

 

[pannaking22]

All sounds clear to me! And I agree, those are the most important bits of info to help make a potential ID. Even if a poster doesn't have all the info asked for, even 2 of the important points can provide all someone needs to make an ID to at least family. Can't stress clear photos enough. I get several emails a week from people around Illinois asking for IDs and when most of the pictures are shot through a potato of a spider 10 feet away because they were too scared to get close to it makes any chance of ID impossible.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

This is a good intro guide to what it takes to identify a spider...

http://www.spiders.us/articles/identification/

 

[The Snark]

Now the plan is to make this thread, info bit, as clear, concise and understandable as possible once we get the wording down pat. @AphonopelmaTX link is excellent. The thread should have several links. A sort of do it yourself guide to help narrow things down. Very simple, very straight forwards.
Need to shake some of our arachnophiles out of their trees and get further input.

Other dumplings that could go into the soup: How to tell a Mygs from trues and ???

 

[pannaking22]

Being able to tell the two groups apart helps narrow things down extremely quickly. If you know you have a Myg, then that automatically eliminates a massive number of potential species which should make the ID process easier not just for the person posting, but also for those wanting to help out.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

I would also like to point out the book "Spiders of North America- An Identification Manual" published by the American Arachnological Society here. It goes through everything someone would need to make an identification themselves. The same information could also be used for one to learn what an experienced arachnologist would use to make an identification so they could provide the correct information. As pannaking22 pointed out, some wouldn't want to get close enough to get clear pictures of the eye arrangement, patterns, leg proportions and shape, etc. to make an ID somewhat possible. Also, not many want to make the investment in time or money to learn how to get pictures of other characters such as the epigyne or trichobotheria to ID to species level. In addition, a lot of spiders can't be identified at all without killing it which not many at all want to do. This thread is a good idea and it would be worth having it, but I don't think most fully appreciate just how difficult it is to identify most spiders to species level with an actual specimen to examine not to mention the near impossibility of using pictures.

Please don't take any of this though as reasons to not pursue the purpose of this thread. It is worth it, but it will also require a lot of work to explain everything.

 

[The Snark]

It is worth it, but it will also require a lot of work to explain everything.

Yes... This is why I am hoping to get as many people as possible to toss in their perspectives - and terminologies - so we can get simple understandable wording and avoid verbal deluges like I am so good at.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

This thread is intended to become a sticky. The concise information required that will assist the people on AB to identify a spider. Looking for input here!
My suggestions (so far)

1. Location spider was found. The natural habitat as opposed to found in a shipping crate or similar.
2. Clear pictures: General shape - overhead and profile and if possible, a macro of the face showing the eye pattern. A bonus is spinnerets. Leg shape and length in comparison to the body can be very helpful.
3. Description. What is lacking in the photos must be verbally described instead. Use proper terminologies if possible.
4. Eyes. Over half the spiders of the world can be identified by the shape and placement of the eyes. Accuracy counts!
5. The web. Orb, cobweb, sheet, silk lined tunnel, no web apparent etc.

Of less importance:
6. Coloration. Can vary drastically within species.
7. Size of body and leg span. Again, can vary drastically.

So what am I forgetting? Am unclear on?

Great thread but optimistic as hell, IMO

 

[Praxibetelix]

From a spider newbie, I used to be afraid of them....

What is a Myg, what is a "true spider," what is an "other" arachnid i.e whip spider, and what are these body parts you mentioned.

Explaining this language might help us to know what to actually look for when we are looking at our spider before we ask for ID.

"1. Location spider was found. The natural habitat as opposed to found in a shipping crate or similar.
2. Clear pictures: General shape - overhead and profile and if possible, a macro of the face showing the eye pattern. A bonus is spinnerets. Leg shape and length in comparison to the body can be very helpful.
3. Description. What is lacking in the photos must be verbally described instead. Use proper terminologies if possible.
4. Eyes. Over half the spiders of the world can be identified by the shape and placement of the eyes. Accuracy counts!
5. The web. Orb, cobweb, sheet, silk lined tunnel, no web apparent etc."~The Snark

What are these kinds of webs? I know what an orb is, a cobweb, however, I do not know the others. I am sure that other people who are asking for IDs may also not know these things. Also, honestly, I do not know how to make this "macro of the face showing the eye pattern." A tutorial on that might also be helpful....what to do when the eyes are too small to see, in the instance of a mobile phone camera being the only thing available to photograph said spider with.

Hope this helps! Some perspective from a newbie.

Good luck with this thread, I think it is a good idea. If my input here was not what was desired, please remove it or put it somewhere else.

 

[Praxibetelix]

You also mentioned leg shape and length in comparison to the body.

I do not know what the different leg shapes are. Perhaps a couple examples...Spider "A" has this type of legs, Spider "B" has this other type, now you pick what kind your spider has and include that in your ID question? Am I being clear? haha

 

[The Snark]

SPIDER EYES!​

And how to view them. Do we ever need some suggestions here without Nikon peril sensitive ultra oglematic 1000 fps zorfedus maximus macro lenses being brought up. SUGGESTIONS PLEASE!!!

My trick. Put on my reading glasses over 2.5 magnification glasses then look through a 4 inch magnifying glass.

 

[The Snark]

Note to self: Need webs explained, legs examples and functions.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

What is a Myg, what is a "true spider," what is an "other" arachnid i.e whip spider, and what are these body parts you mentioned.

Oh there is that pesky term "true spider" again. I would like to talk about the term "true spider" for a bit.

It is a complete misnomer in the way it is commonly used which is to refer to spiders in the infraorder Araneomorphae. It needs to be tossed out and it's usage dropped. All arachnids in the order Araneae are spiders and none are more "true" of a spider than the other. The segmented trap door spider (suborder Mesothelae), tarantula (suborder Opisthothelae; infraorder Mygalomorphae; family Theraphosidae), and the orb weavers (suborder Opisthothelae; infraorder Araneomorphae; family Araneidae) for example are all spiders!

"True spider" only has any real meaning when comparing arachnid orders which use the word "spider" in their common name. For example, the arachnid order Amblypygi has the common name "whip spiders" or when one refers to harvestmen, order Opiliones, as "daddy long leg spiders". In these situations, you can say the aforementioned arachnids are not true spiders because they do not belong to the order Araneae. The term "true spider" can also be used when comparing a spider to a fossil arachnid that are very very similar to spiders, but for one reason or another they do not belong to the order Araneae.

So once more, a "true spider" is any arachnid that belongs to the order Araneae. That includes tarantulas, orb weavers, black widows, purse webs, trapdoors, net casting spiders, jumping spiders, so on and so on.

 

[The Snark]

@AphonopelmaTX . Good point. I've never got along with true and not ?true? spiders and only used the term on this thread. It muddies the waters and only adds confusion. Certainly doesn't help the amateur trying to ID one. We need to concentrate on obvious tell tale traits. If the person is interested in further knowledge the taxonomy, terminologies and biology can be brought in.
(And, if the truth be told, a whole heck of a lot of aranea taxonomy is a mess of contradictions, disputes, crossed wires and uncertainty that will probably get tossed out the window when genetics has a say in things. Only a little over 42,000 species to go on that front.)

 

[The Snark]

Pending

 

[The wolf]

From a spider newbie, I used to be afraid of them....

What is a Myg, what is a "true spider," what is an "other" arachnid i.e whip spider, and what are these body parts you mentioned.

Explaining this language might help us to know what to actually look for when we are looking at our spider before we ask for ID.

"1. Location spider was found. The natural habitat as opposed to found in a shipping crate or similar.
2. Clear pictures: General shape - overhead and profile and if possible, a macro of the face showing the eye pattern. A bonus is spinnerets. Leg shape and length in comparison to the body can be very helpful.
3. Description. What is lacking in the photos must be verbally described instead. Use proper terminologies if possible.
4. Eyes. Over half the spiders of the world can be identified by the shape and placement of the eyes. Accuracy counts!
5. The web. Orb, cobweb, sheet, silk lined tunnel, no web apparent etc."~The Snark

What are these kinds of webs? I know what an orb is, a cobweb, however, I do not know the others. I am sure that other people who are asking for IDs may also not know these things. Also, honestly, I do not know how to make this "macro of the face showing the eye pattern." A tutorial on that might also be helpful....what to do when the eyes are too small to see, in the instance of a mobile phone camera being the only thing available to photograph said spider with.

Hope this helps! Some perspective from a newbie.

Good luck with this thread, I think it is a good idea. If my input here was not what was desired, please remove it or put it somewhere else.

I conjunction to your webbing question here is a quick guide
Silk lined burrow-a burrow into the soil lined by silk often with some webbing at the top
Lace web thick lacy strands radiating from a hole or crack they can be bluish when fresh
Flat mesh a mesh usury on a wal with a spider living under it like a tent
Triangle web like one section of an orb web in a triangle
Horisental Stabilimentium web a horizontal web with a fuzzy line across the middle
Star tube web a lace web like tube with long radial strands
Tangle web the famous cobwebs of ''daddy long legs'' o cellar spider
Nursery tent a thick rage tent combining plant foliage usually grass blades containing an Egg sac
Funnel or cobweb a flat sheet attached to a funnel these are the attic cobwebs
Tube web these are tubes in holes in walls
Scaffold and sheet webs these are flat sheets eld by single threads on the ground or messy 3D webs of similar construction

Hope this helps.a lot of the terms are unnoficial i know this please don't flame me for it this if based on a uk guide to spider fwebs so if I've issued any say so

 

[Ungoliant]

1. Location spider was found. The natural habitat as opposed to found in a shipping crate or similar.

Knowing that it was found in packaging can sometimes be useful if the origin of the packaging is known. For example, there are some species from Central and South America that sometimes get transported in banana shipments.

7. Size of body and leg span. Again, can vary drastically.

I'm assuming when you say "size of body" you mean body length (not including the legs or palps). Unlike the hobby, which often uses diagonal leg span, arachnologists use body length, so this is a far more useful measurement to include than legspan or comparisons to coins. (Coin comparisons are less than ideal, because not everyone is from the same country and is familiar with the same coins.)

If possible, please use metric units (cm or mm) instead of imperial units (inches), as that is what most of the literature uses.

So what am I forgetting? Am unclear on?

Knowing the time of day and time of year (if not the same as the date posted) is also helpful.

The thread should have several links.

I posted a list of Spider ID Resources.

 

[The Snark]

To be honest, I gave up on this project a year ago.

Yes... This is why I am hoping to get as many people as possible to toss in their perspectives - and terminologies - so we can get simple understandable wording and avoid verbal deluges like I am so good at.

I got buried in other work and wasn't getting much help.