How should we continue the US hobby?

[iPocalyspe]

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Before I start, I decided to post this in the Tarantula Questions & Discussions forum because I feel there are definite repercussions to the US hobby as this will questions how tarantulas enter the US hobby, US breeders, US importers, etc. and I feel this issue should be discussed. Please read through my post to see if this should stay in the Tarantula Questions & Discussions rather than being in Tarantula Chat. If it is deemed this should be in the Tarantula Chat my apologizes, feel free to delete this chat.

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I'd like to start off saying that I am new to the hobby, and this is a question I have thought about deeply. "How should we continue the US hobby?" I think there are many things to consider and I will separate them, as I believe it will help understand them. So I aim to answer the following:

What are the ramifications of importing tarantulas?

*The impact on US breeders

*The possibility of wild caught tarantulas

*The issue of “brown boxing”

*The possibility of future import/export laws


One of the biggest issue I have heard is how importing affects US breeders. Importing is lowering the wholesale price of Ts to a point where it is not profitable for US breeders. This decreases the amount of people who will become breeders in the US, as it is costly and offers little reward with the risk of even more imported tarantulas. This plays into the fourth part.


There is a whole debate against captive-bred vs wild-caught tarantulas, but I will forgo this. There are clear environmental issues where selling wild tarantulas could drastically reduce their wild population. This could easily anger environmentalist and politicians (Either in the US or the country the tarantulas are coming from). Again, this plays into the fourth part.


Brown boxing has been a problem in our community. I would be surprised if any brown boxing scheme has surpassed that seen in Operation Spiderman, though I am fully certain it still happens today to some degree. This is illegal and has brought a bad light on the community, one that may significantly increase restrictions on what tarantulas may or may not be shipped into the US (going into part four).


Future import/export laws could devastate the US hobby. If there are heavy restrictions in the future it would be hard for the US hobby to be self-sufficient currently. There are plenty of issues that could cause governments to ban/heavily restrict the importation or exportation of certain or all tarantulas. Plenty of tarantulas have an endangered status/protected status and if people keep taking certain species it could increase the list. It is possible that countries will get fed up with illegal trafficking and will start to crack down, this was seen in Operation Spiderman. Laws can change for the worse and it is something that we must be prepared for.



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How can we move forward?

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There are several options that I see, I can’t say which is the best but that is why I hope to get a discussion started. They go as follows:


A ~ No Imports

Instead of waiting for governments to decide they don’t like importing/exporting tarantulas we end it ourselves. This could take some time but this shift is doable, but requires some effort.


B ~ Limited Imports

There are varying degrees of limited Imports

B-1

Limiting Imports only to breeders for newly discovered species and

for adding “new blood” for genetic diversity.

B-2

Limiting Imports where anyone can get newly discovered species

and breeders can get tarantulas for genetic diversity


C ~ Nothing Changes

Things are fine now, so people can choose to buy US bred/imported


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My Two Cents

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A~ This is what we should aim for, though it would be almost impossible because there are new species discovered and there is still no consensus on whether or not there are genetic deformities in tarantulas, so genetic diversity may be necessary to prevent such issues.

B~ Both B-1 & B-2 seem like reasonable plans, there is the risk of new import/export laws but it would have little impact on the US hobby. It could take a some years to get to this point (I doubt anyone currently selling imported tarantulas would want to take a loss on their current stock) but I believe that we can get to a point where the hobby can sustain itself


C~ This would most certainly be the easiest, though like with most situations the easiest solution isn’t usually the best. I feel that the US hobby is cracking, there is a divide between US breeders and a majority of sellers. This is a risk of import/export laws changing and we must be prepared.


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My goal is simply to open your eyes to an issue that may have gone unnoticed to many, here are some questions I’d appreciate if you could answer them. Thank you all for reading!


So what is your view on this issue? Is this something that we should look into or can it be ignored? What do you feel is the best approach to take? Is there any points or options that I may have overlooked?

 

[KezyGLA]

Its the top breeders in US that are importing in bulk from Europe and selling on cheap. If other US breeders have an issue with that then they should maybe apply for an import/export license and pay all the excess per import.

.. These imports are making rarer species available in the US hobby and are also bringing prices down on other species. If that isnt a good thing for the hobbyist, then I dont know what is.

 

[sasker]

I think it is much easier to make a living in the US breeding tarantulas than in Europe with those ridiculously high prices in America. I am glad that ordering a tarantula does not cost me an arm and a leg. If imports would break the oligopoly of US breeders, bring down prices of tarantulas and make it possible for more people to keep (and breed) tarantulas, I would be OK with that if I lived in the US. Is it really such a bad thing that breeding tarantulas is mainly done as a hobby instead of for financial gain?

I have no experience breeding tarantula's (yet), but many tarantulas have hundreds of slings per egg sack. With so much supply, I have the feeling that prices of tarantulas are artificially kept high on your side of the pond.

Of course, disappearing populations in the wild because of tarantula poaching is a bad thing, but lower tarantula prices would make poaching less lucrative.

 

[viper69]

These imports are making rarer species available in the US hobby and are also bringing prices down on other species. If that isnt a good thing for the hobbyist, then I dont know what is

So true. A huge majority of Ts would not be available were it not for European community. All of the major T dealers benefit directly or indirectly from imports. They are either importing directly or know an importer etc etc.

P. victori among others is a perfect RECENT example of the above.

 

[Arachnoclown]

I watched a breeder at a expo yesterday make over $1000. In the 10-15 minutes I was at his table. Prices high too but people were buying them up fast.

 

[jaycied]

I am very okay with importing Ts to the states. I would love to be able to move near a port and start importing and selling. Without importing allowed, hobbyists in the US would never be able to get ahold of species available elsewhere. I'd love to see more people get into the hobby, and that could happen if prices on certain species was lowered.

I am vehemently opposed to wild caught Ts. So many issues.

 

[metallica]

There are a couple of points to consider:
1- The US have the Lacey Act. So if a country is closed for export (Mexico, Costa Rica, Brazil to name a few), it is illigal to import WC animals from that country. Europe does not have such law. As long as the animal is not under international law (for example CITES), it is still illigal to take the animal out of the country..... but not illigal to import into Europe. This makes the risk a lot smaller. Once these WC animals reproduce, it is legal to import the CB young into the US..... And you guys pay good money for those.

2- In the US hobby the majority are stamp collectors. 1 specimen of each species. In Europe people are more focused; be it in a country or a genus/ species. Buying groups of spiderlings, with breeding the species as the primary goal.

 

[beaker41]

I really can’t see importing as a threat to breeders. I don’t think the majority of people who are breeding are trying to make money as their primary goal. People who have never done it probably see it as this incredible gold mine when they hear about big hatches of expensive slings, but once you realize the amount of feed, the number of bad pairings, lost sacs, mortality, etc it starts to become clear that this can be a break even prospect at best for many years before you get any yields. Plus when you get your big hatch you now are going to spend a tremendous amount of time in emails, PayPal, making shipping arrangements and buying supplies. Personally I started breeding because I couldn’t afford to buy as many slings as I wanted. If you look at it there are only a couple dozen online retailers in the US and maybe half those are well established with regular stock and websites. If anything, the shoddy results people often get with wc, parasites, old or malnourished animals, dubious taxonomy, impact on the native habitat, help cb stock sales because you don’t have to worry about those issues.