How can I make a tarantula friendly?

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
What kind of biology are you studying, exactly?
Why, Vanessa, why? Why do you have to attack me personally instead of just providing evidence for your position?
Congratulations in a belated way. My German is rusty since I haven't used any since 2009, but is that a doctorate in biology?

Definitely worthy of congrats
No, that's my Diploma (like a Masters degree) because it's more relevant to the topic at hand than my Doctorate thesis :)

But thank you :)
 

Xafron

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Messages
82
When it floods, they often seek higher ground. They might even be able to anticipate cyclical flooding because it is part of their experience. That doesn't mean that they understand flooding, or reason with themselves that it is time to go high because it might flood. It is an instinctual response to an environmental change that has become part of their experience that aids in their survival.
Generally, when a post suggests that a T can anticipate something through past experience it is met with nothing but disagreement. However this post was very well received and suggests exactly that.

If a T could potentially anticipate flooding because it is a reoccurring thing in its life, then why could it not anticipate handling or something like when/where you feed it, and so on? Mind you I am not talking about whether or not they "understand" it or "enjoy" it.
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
You might want to read some of the scientific sources I provided in this thread before making a completely unsubstantiated claim like that.
My only qualification is 18 years in the hobby, along with 8 years experience with venomous reptiles. So it's purely observational.
 

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
My only qualification is 18 years in the hobby, along with 8 years experience with venomous reptiles. So it's purely observational.
I didn't mean to attack you, sorry. I really am not saying tarantulas can study math or anything. It's just that some basic - and I mean basic - learning has been shown repeatedly in all kinds of invertebrates (not tarantulas, but why would they be the only invertebrate that can't learn?). Habituation, i.e. getting used to something because of memory and association, is very well studied and proven (Just google invertebrate learning. There's some fascinating stuff, and plenty of it). It doesn't mean the tarantula is going to learn your name or anything.

But: in the book by Peter Klaas, a rather famous German tarantula researcher (you know all those Something klaasi spiders?) he describes habituation by a group of B. boehmeis in the wild. Those boehmeis lived alongside a main road with loads of traffic. Some of them were sitting besides ther burrows in hunting position while heavy trucks were going by. They were used to those vibrations and knew they were not dangerous. However, when he carefully tried to approach them they all retreated in their burrow. The tarantula made the connection: heavy vibrations = not dangerous, steps = potentially dangerous. They must have learned that, because trucks are certainly not something that usually belongs into nature.
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
I didn't mean to attack you, sorry. I really am not saying tarantulas can study math or anything. It's just that some basic - and I mean basic - learning has been shown repeatedly in all kinds of invertebrates (not tarantulas, but why would they be the only invertebrate that can't learn?). Habituation, i.e. getting used to something because of memory and association, is very well studied and proven (Just google invertebrate learning. There's some fascinating stuff, and plenty of it). It doesn't mean the tarantula is going to learn your name or anything.

But: in the book by Peter Klaas, a rather famous German tarantula researcher (you know all those Something klaasi spiders?) he describes habituation by a group of B. boehmeis in the wild. Those boehmeis lived alongside a main road with loads of traffic. Some of them were sitting besides ther burrows in hunting position while heavy trucks were going by. They were used to those vibrations and knew they were not dangerous. However, when he carefully tried to approach them they all retreated in their burrow. The tarantula made the connection: heavy vibrations = not dangerous, steps = potentially dangerous. They must have learned that, because trucks are certainly not something that usually belongs into nature.
I remember reading something to that effect. My only question is, is that an evolved behaviour which built up as a defence over multiple generations. Or was this a new generation that learned how to differentiate?

However one thing person's of science do so well is change our views when presented with evidence of their being incorrect
 

boina

Lady of the mites
Active Member
Joined
Mar 25, 2015
Messages
2,217
I remember reading something to that effect. My only question is, is that an evolved behaviour which built up as a defence over multiple generations. Or was this a new generation that learned how to differentiate?
Well, that could be both, of course, you are right. Maybe I should mention my own spiders that get used to my cats jumping up on the bookcase with all my spiders inside? That's pretty heavy vibrations, but after a few weeks in my house the spiders don't react at all to that anymore. Must be individuals here :).
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
Well, that could be both, of course, you are right. Maybe I should mention my own spiders that get used to my cats jumping up on the bookcase with all my spiders inside? That's pretty heavy vibrations, but after a few weeks in my house the spiders don't react at all to that anymore. Must be individuals here :).
I have observations of that, firsthand. I was sitting two rambunctious kittens(they were adult males but I call all cats kittens) for a few months and my tarantulas all seemed to get used to their thumping and banging over time
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
I must retract my former comment. There is a possibility that they can learn, most likely only certain things relative to immediate survival, but it is still rudimentary learning
 

The Grym Reaper

Arachnoreaper
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Messages
4,835
I was going to post this ages ago but couldn't find it. Anyway, they can figure out how to open some enclosures so who knows how smart they really are.

 

Xafron

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 5, 2017
Messages
82
More and more I wonder if a large portion of the members here severely underestimate their Ts brains based purely on their own assumptions and opinions. Because when I look at the information presented, I see animals capable of learning from experience and so on, not something that purely reacts in the moment to stimuli.
 

JoshDM020

Arachnobaron
Joined
Mar 24, 2017
Messages
356
Why, Vanessa, why? Why do you have to attack me personally instead of just providing evidence for your position?
She ignored a reasonable question i asked, as well. Although, she didnt attack me in the process.
 

D Sherlod

Arachnoknight
Joined
Dec 30, 2016
Messages
218
Spiders and inverts have been on this planet much longer then humans and I would assume they will be
still here long after we are gone.
So really who is the smartest if survival is the name of the game :troll:
 

Grimmdreadly

Arachnopeon
Joined
Mar 13, 2017
Messages
29
Spiders and inverts have been on this planet much longer then humans and I would assume they will be
still here long after we are gone.
So really who is the smartest if survival is the name of the game :troll:
They've evolved to their version of perfection. We have not
 

Nephila Edulis

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
201
Learning can be seen in Portia spiders for sure, and it's likely that centipedes are also rather intelligent compared to other inverts, @Staehilomyces tamed a scolopendra morsitans which can be a rather flighty species. I assume that it would be similar to a T in terms of how to tame them, assuming that it's not a flighty or aggressive OW
 

Staehilomyces

Arachnoprince
Joined
Mar 2, 2016
Messages
1,514
Learning can be seen in Portia spiders for sure, and it's likely that centipedes are also rather intelligent compared to other inverts, @Staehilomyces tamed a scolopendra morsitans which can be a rather flighty species. I assume that it would be similar to a T in terms of how to tame them, assuming that it's not a flighty or aggressive OW
The thing is, there are several differences between centipede temperament and tarantula temperament. From what I've read, it seems tarantulas can get somewhat accustomed to handling, but eventually forget, and may also change temperament between molts. Meanwhile, my S. morsitans, who was formerly very jumpy, calmed down after about a week and remained docile for the rest of his life, including through a molt and several periods of over a week where I did not handle him. And when I say calmed down, I mean it. Before he died a few weeks ago, I could hand feed him, pet him with considerable force, rub him behind and even under the head, and handle him for periods of over an hour, all without a single envenomation. I'm trying the same techniques on my large female Ethmostigmus rubripes, and she's already calmed down noticeably. I would also like to add that getting and E. rubripes to calm down is quite an accomplishment. Unlike E. trignopodus, they have a temperament rivalling that of dehaani.
 

Nephila Edulis

Arachnoknight
Joined
Feb 27, 2017
Messages
201
The thing is, there are several differences between centipede temperament and tarantula temperament. From what I've read, it seems tarantulas can get somewhat accustomed to handling, but eventually forget, and may also change temperament between molts. Meanwhile, my S. morsitans, who was formerly very jumpy, calmed down after about a week and remained docile for the rest of his life, including through a molt and several periods of over a week where I did not handle him. And when I say calmed down, I mean it. Before he died a few weeks ago, I could hand feed him, pet him with considerable force, rub him behind and even under the head, and handle him for periods of over an hour, all without a single envenomation. I'm trying the same techniques on my large female Ethmostigmus rubripes, and she's already calmed down noticeably. I would also like to add that getting and E. rubripes to calm down is quite an accomplishment. Unlike E. trignopodus, they have a temperament rivalling that of dehaani.
I see, I assumed that for both tarantulas and centipedes it's the same concept of making them realise that you're neither food nor a threat. I don't really handle my tarantulas and I only have one centipede so it just shows what I know
 
Top