HOT snake questions

Rabid Flea

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Apr 9, 2005
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Ok guys, I have been keeping various species of reptiles all my life, ranging from ball pythons to caimans. I have kept the occasional copperhead that had been locally caught as well. I am fully aware of the risks associated with keeping hots and the responcibility that comes along with it. Anyway on to my questions. I recently moved to Iowa. I have done some research online as to what hot species I may be able to keep here but the info I have found all sounds like french to me. Does anyone know of a "dumbed down" version of state laws regarding what can be kept? Also the only website I know of that even sells hots is gherp.com and any others will be greatly appreciated. The species i am looking to be able to keep specifically are:

C. atrox (albino)
B. gibonica
S. miliarius barbouri (number one pick, love these guys)
N. kaouthia (2nd pick)

Thanks in advance for any advise or help.
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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Sorry Bro!

"Summary of Law: A person shall not own, possess or breed a dangerous wild animal. A dangerous wild animal is defined as any member of the following families, orders or species: canidae (excluding a domestic dog), hyaenidae, felidae (excluding a domestic cat), ursidae, perissodactyla, proboscidea, order primates, crocodilia, and water monitors, crocodile monitors, beaded lizards, gila monsters, designated species of venomous snakes, reticulated pythons, anacondas, and African rock pythons."

http://www.bornfreeusa.org/b4a2_exotic_animals_summary.php

Iowa Code - [Defining illegalized snakes.]

"A member of the family elapidae, voperidae, crotalidae, atractaspidae, or hydrophidae which are venomous, including but not limited to cobras, mambas, coral snakes, kraits, adders, vipers, rattlesnakes, copperheads, pit vipers, keelbacks, cottonmouths, and sea snakes."

Not to be rude, but did you try google? A simple google search would have identified the code and various venomous reptile vendors. It literally took me two minutes and a swift google search to find all of the above information.

TBH
 
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Rabid Flea

Arachnobaron
Old Timer
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Apr 9, 2005
Messages
467
Thanks for the fast reply. Well I guess that narrows it down to being able to keep pretty much no hots without a permit, which I heard is darn near impossible to obtain. Guess its off to the fields to go "hunting" *evil grin*
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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Thanks for the fast reply. Well I guess that narrows it down to being able to keep pretty much no hots without a permit, which I heard is darn near impossible to obtain. Guess its off to the fields to go "hunting" *evil grin*
To get a permit in most states requiring one, you must have the animal for the sake of education or business, [I.E. zoo, public shows, etc.] you could also be grand fathered in. [Which isn't on the table for you at this point.] At least that's how it works in Virginia for animals requiring a permit.

TBH
 

Rabid Flea

Arachnobaron
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ThomasH, You seem very knowledgable in your information. Do you keep hots yourself?
 

whitewolf

Arachnolord
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What I have gathered in Texas only is it's just like buying a hunting fishing license for non native and a couple others. Kind of a scary thought. (Thinking on the negative for the hobby). Spoiled kids and parents who buy them anything. People who don't do their homework first. I like the idea of having a huge WDB but not the actual owning. {D In my head I have thousands.{D Move to Texas were nuts.{D
 

Rabid Flea

Arachnobaron
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Messages
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What I have gathered in Texas only is it's just like buying a hunting fishing license for non native and a couple others. Kind of a scary thought. (Thinking on the negative for the hobby). Spoiled kids and parents who buy them anything. People who don't do their homework first. I like the idea of having a huge WDB but not the actual owning. {D In my head I have thousands.{D Move to Texas were nuts.{D
Man I think im done moving around. Time for this old boy to settle down and grow some roots. I have lived in 5 states this year already. Just out of curiosity do you know how to go about obtaining these permits? :?
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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ThomasH, You seem very knowledgable in your information. Do you keep hots yourself?
Inverts? Yes.

Herps? No.

I am trying to obtain a Northern Copperhead [Agkistrodon contortrix mokasen.], got my mother's okay on it but I'm not going to pay $75 in shipping and then still have to ride to the air port. So I've committed to scattered efforts in finding one around the beautiful Virginia wilderness.

I volunteered at a local zoo when I was 13, they had the distinction of having the largest venomous snake collection on the East Coast. Didn't get hands on experience with hots of course but I did get to see the owner working with them on a daily basis.

Man I think im done moving around. Time for this old boy to settle down and grow some roots. I have lived in 5 states this year already. Just out of curiosity do you know how to go about obtaining these permits? :?
They often grant them at participating wal-marts. If not, they'll surely grant them at the state fish and game/wild life services.

TBH
 

josh_r

Arachnoprince
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Jan 18, 2008
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What I have gathered in Texas only is it's just like buying a hunting fishing license for non native and a couple others. Kind of a scary thought. (Thinking on the negative for the hobby). Spoiled kids and parents who buy them anything. People who don't do their homework first. I like the idea of having a huge WDB but not the actual owning. {D In my head I have thousands.{D Move to Texas were nuts.{D
you guys are no more nutts than anyone else.... well sorta :D... many states still require no permits or license. i think florida has it right in that the only way you can keep venomous is to 'earn' a permit. i think it is 1000 or so hours of experience working with hots from an experienced keeper to earn your permit. i believe that this should be the standard for every state instead of taking away our right to keep hots. this would weed out the irresponsible from the responsible keepers.

-josh
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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you guys are no more nutts than anyone else.... well sorta :D... many states still require no permits or license. i think florida has it right in that the only way you can keep venomous is to 'earn' a permit. i think it is 1000 or so hours of experience working with hots from an experienced keeper to earn your permit. i believe that this should be the standard for every state instead of taking away our right to keep hots. this would weed out the irresponsible from the responsible keepers.

-josh

I wouldn't oppose a fair national permitation system but 1,000 hours? That's just irrational and repugnant to me any way. It is not any where near an example of an exceptional hot snake permitation system. In my state it only takes 45 hours of behind the wheel experience to get your drivers license. Vehicles are, with out the slightest doubt, more hazardous than exotic snakes.

Don't forget, Florida is the same state that out lawed the common people from keeping exotic pedes and roaches. The state legislators also enforcing a "bug keeper's" permitation system for most exotic scorpions. Definitely not a good example of fair exotic animal keeping privileges.

TBH
 

josh_r

Arachnoprince
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I wouldn't oppose a fair national permitation system but 1,000 hours? That's just irrational and repugnant to me any way. It is not any where near an example of an exceptional hot snake permitation system. In my state it only takes 45 hours of behind the wheel experience to get your drivers license. Vehicles are, with out the slightest doubt, more hazardous than exotic snakes.

Don't forget, Florida is the same state that out lawed the common people from keeping exotic pedes and roaches. The state legislators also enforcing a "bug keeper's" permitation system for most exotic scorpions. Definitely not a good example of fair exotic animal keeping privileges.

TBH
florida also has the highest percentage of exotic invasive species. 1,000 hours is perfectly alright. its better than not being able to keep them at all. and this ensures that responsible keepers will have the privilege to keep them. i wish my state has a system like that. instead, i am not allowed to have ANYTHING venomous at all!! while i do agree that texas has it better ($20 for a keepers license. $60 for a commercial license) 1,000 hours is better than no privilege at all.

-josh
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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florida also has the highest percentage of exotic invasive species. 1,000 hours is perfectly alright. its better than not being able to keep them at all. and this ensures that responsible keepers will have the privilege to keep them. i wish my state has a system like that. instead, i am not allowed to have ANYTHING venomous at all!! while i do agree that texas has it better ($20 for a keepers license. $60 for a commercial license) 1,000 hours is better than no privilege at all.

-josh
How many of those invasives have been hot snakes? Apples and oranges, it has nothing to do with that besides fear itself. It insures the priviledge to keep them NOW. If any one's been paying attention to my USARK updates, they'd see that Florida is trying to ban specific large Constrictors and Nile Monitors, species that they'd previously offered a permitation system to as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Florida illegalizing exotic venomous soon. You seem blissfully ignorant as to the species of inverts they've already banned. Definitely not a model state in the slightest.

TBH
 

David_F

Arachnoprince
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The biggest reason they're considering banning large constrictors and nile monitors is that even with the permit system in place many people ignore the regulations and get the snakes and lizards. There is definitely a breeding population of burms in FL and I've heard of niles living in the wild there. Don't know if they're established though. If the state grants the right to keep these animals but individuals are too irresponsible to follow the rules the state has the power to revoke the right. Sure, it may be a case of just a few irresponsible people breaking the rules but those few people have caused a huge problem for the state.

The regulatons governing hots is reasonable and seems to be working. It might be somewhat prohibitive for some people but that's the price you pay.
 

ThomasH

Arachnoprince
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The biggest reason they're considering banning large constrictors and nile monitors is that even with the permit system in place many people ignore the regulations and get the snakes and lizards.
And how exactly would this change with a complete ban? The very same people that ignore permitation systems are those of which whom ignore the bans as well.

There is definitely a breeding population of burms in FL and I've heard of niles living in the wild there. Don't know if they're established though. If the state grants the right to keep these animals but individuals are too irresponsible to follow the rules the state has the power to revoke the right. Sure, it may be a case of just a few irresponsible people breaking the rules but those few people have caused a huge problem for the state.
Again, how would that change with a ban? If they are following the permitation system then they would have all their animals micro-chipped any way but the animals out there obviously aren't micro-chipped. Meaning that they were either released before the regulations or they were already being illegally kept and there was nothing stopping them for doing so, which wouldn't have changed a thing with a "ban."

TBH
 

josh_r

Arachnoprince
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How many of those invasives have been hot snakes? Apples and oranges, it has nothing to do with that besides fear itself. It insures the priviledge to keep them NOW. If any one's been paying attention to my USARK updates, they'd see that Florida is trying to ban specific large Constrictors and Nile Monitors, species that they'd previously offered a permitation system to as well. I wouldn't be surprised to see Florida illegalizing exotic venomous soon. You seem blissfully ignorant as to the species of inverts they've already banned. Definitely not a model state in the slightest.

TBH
well, i dont live in florida so who gives a crap! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!! im just kidding! dont get your britches tied in a knot! florida may not be a good example, but they have more invasive species than any other state. and even with the permits and bans, people still wont learn... they just keep dumping exotics into the wild.... one of these days, it could be a venomous species you hear about invading the everglades. i understand their fear of this and i understand that not everybody should be allowed to keep hot animals.

permitting legit, responsible keepers would lessen the risk of stupid acts like this from happening. i believe that instead of banning these things all together, allow responsible keepers to prove themselves and earn a permit. better than nothing at all. many states regulate and ban hot herps.... i am surprised they haven't started regulating inverts sooner.
 

David_F

Arachnoprince
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Thomas,

I didn't say anything would change with a ban. Nothing ever does. Of course there will still be people who will skirt the law. I just said the state has every right to institute a ban.

We can either cooperate with the systems in place or keep these animals illegally. Probably best to cooperate. You may not agree with the way a lot of things are done but unless you are able to change a lot of minds you just have to deal with it.
 

josh_r

Arachnoprince
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Thomas,

I didn't say anything would change with a ban. Nothing ever does. Of course there will still be people who will skirt the law. I just said the state has every right to institute a ban.

We can either cooperate with the systems in place or keep these animals illegally. Probably best to cooperate. You may not agree with the way a lot of things are done but unless you are able to change a lot of minds you just have to deal with it.
hey david... LOOK!!!! CAKE!!!!

 
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