Heterometrus or pandinus?

TreeTops1015

Arachnopeon
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Hello hope you are having a good day,my question is which is more active heterometrus or pandinus?what would be a nice heterometrus to get as there is a lot of heterometrus scorpions out there?and what do you feed them between dubia roaches and crickets?how often do you try to feed them?thanks for all advice
 

Collin Clary

Arachnobaron
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The behavior for both genera is pretty much identical. H. petersii and P. imperator are the commonly sold species of each at the moment.

I feed the dubias because large adults can have trouble catching crickets. I don't really have a set feeding schedule, but I usually offer food every 1-2 weeks. That doesn't necessarily mean that they will eat every time though.
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
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Emperors if you are considering a pet that is more tolerant of handling as AFS are far more to prone pinch and sting.

Asian Forest Scorpions are terrestrial scorpions that love to hide beneath debris such as leaf litter, fallen logs, stones, etc. They may burrow some but definitely not as extensive as Emperors whom if permitted (provided deep substrate) will burrow quite extensively.

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Continental Neoichnology Database
The Continental Ichnology Research Laboratory at Ohio University
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P. IMPERATOR TRACES
Pandinus imperator produces three distinct burrow architectures.

Open burrows are used as temporary shelters to permanent dwellings. All burrows have one surface opening and sharp, irregular walls with no evidence of a constructed lining. Burrow elements vary in orientation from horizontal to oblique (0-50 degrees) and rarely vertical (75-90 degrees). The orientation varies along the length of the tunnels whereas chambers tend to be horizontal. The shafts and tunnels are elliptical in cross section with a flattened base, curved walls, and a concave roof. Tunnels and chambers have variable widths and heights along their length and may be straight to curved. Chambers are up to five times wider than high.

Each of the three burrow architectures has numerous variations and modifications. The same architectures are produced when single or multiple individuals inhabit the same burrow. The burrows are often modified by the scorpions over the time of occupation and frequently progress from simple to more complex architectures. Subvertical ramps, for example, may be expanded into helical or branching burrows.

Additional resources are available within the downloadable PDF and Excel files linked at the bottom of the page

In situ burrows



In-Situ 1
In-Situ 2
In-Situ 3



Subvertical ramps



ES4 (3)
ES4 (4)
ES6 (5)
ES6 (14)
ES9 (5)
ES9 (14)
ES11 (7)
ES11 (11)



Helical burrows



ES2 (4)
ES2 (10)
ES3 (3)
ES3 (7)



Branching burrows



ES8 (2)
ES8 (15)
ES8 (23)




Additional resources

Emperor Scorpion Burrow Catalog (PDF)

Emperor Scorpion Burrow Info Packet (PDF)

Emperor Scorpion Burrow Data Spreadsheet(Microsoft Excel – Auto Download)


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http://www.continentalneoichnology.org/organisms/pandinus-imperator/traces/

Personally I love them both but prefer AFS, they are one of my favorite species of all time.
 
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Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
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Here is more on Emperors:

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The Continental Ichnology Research Laboratory at Ohio University
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EMPEROR SCORPION
Emperor Scorpion (Pandinus imperator)

For full details see Hembree (2014) in Experimental Approaches to Understanding Fossil Behavior (Topics in Geobiology, Springer)



Specimen
Specimen



Description of Organism

  • One of the largest extant species of scorpion, reaching lengths of 20 cm
  • Large, heavy claws (pedipalps) with a granular surface tecture
  • Inhabits soils of forests and savannahs in West Africa
  • Feeds on invertebrates as well as small vertebrates
  • Live individually or in groups of up to 15-20 individuals
Published Descriptions of Organism



Burrowing Technique
Pandinus imperator burrows by direct excavation, using the first two to three pairs of walking legs. These legs are used to excavate and lift sediment particles from the floor and walls of the developing burrow. The excavated sediment is gathered into a loose mass, held with the first two to three pairs of walking legs, and then dragged backward out of the burrow and away from the burrow opening.



Excavation
Vertical Excavation
Sediment Dragging




Burrowing Technique Videos


Video Player
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Video Player
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Video Player
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Burrowing Behavior
Pandinus imperator specimens begin to burrow within 1-24 hours of placement into experimental enclosures. Burrows are often started near or beneath rocks or pieces of wood so that the burrow entrance is partially hidden. Burrow openings have a distinctive triangular shape. Excavated sediment is deposited in a broadly distributed pile located next to and up to 20cm away from the burrow opening. During intervals of burrow expansion, sediment is deposited along the floor of preexisting tunnels, and on very rare occasions, entire tunnels are backfilled as new tunnels are excavated. The burrows are used as temporary shelters to permanent dwellings. Burrow openings are used as prey ambush sites and deeper, more complex burrows are used to trap prey beneath the surface.



Opening under rock
Concealed opening
Paired burrow openings
Triangle opening
Excavated sediment pile
Prey capture at opening




Trace Morphology
Pandinus imperator produces three distinct types of burrows: subvertical ramps, helical burrows, and branching burrows; examples of each are shown below. Each photo is linked to an information page about the specific burrow architecture shown.


Subvertical Ramp


Branching Burrows


Helical Burrows



Click here for the complete photographic archive of all burrows produced by P. imperator.

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TreeTops1015

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Thanks for all advices!
Emperors if you are considering a pet that is more tolerant of handling as AFS are far more to prone pinch and sting.

Asian Forest Scorpions are terrestrial scorpions that love to hide beneath debris such as leaf litter, fallen logs, stones, etc. They may burrow some but definitely not as extensive as Emperors whom if permitted (provided deep substrate) will burrow quite extensively.




http://www.continentalneoichnology.org/organisms/pandinus-imperator/traces/

Personally I love them both but prefer AFS, they are one of my favorite species of all time.
why do you prefer the AFS?I was thinking of a heterometrus swammerdami,but those are pretty rare in the US.
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
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Thanks for all advices!
why do you prefer the AFS?I was thinking of a heterometrus swammerdami,but those are pretty rare in the US.
I like their behavior more, being terrestrial they're more active and aggressive. But one can't go wrong with Emperors they just seem more "chill" and they are alot safer kept communal too.

You aren't going to find H.swammerdamis in the US and if you do, they can be pricy.
 

TreeTops1015

Arachnopeon
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Messages
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I feed the dubias because large adults can have trouble catching crickets.
adult size dubias or nymphs,also can you feed dubias unmedicated chicken feed I'm pretty new to them lol.
I like their behavior more, being terrestrial they're more active and aggressive. But one can't go wrong with Emperors they just seem more "chill" and they are alot safer kept communal too.

You aren't going to find H.swammerdamis in the US and if you do, they can be pricy.
so what is another Heteremetrus that's close in size to that of the H.Swammerdami that is easy to find in the US especially in a repticon.:D
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
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adult size dubias or nymphs,also can you feed dubias unmedicated chicken feed I'm pretty new to them lol.
so what is another Heteremetrus that's close in size to that of the H.Swammerdami that is easy to find in the US especially in a repticon.:D
Of the more common species of Heterometrus species, the largest ones are H.longimanus and H.spinifer only problem is that the most common Heterometrus sold under the generic name of Asian Forest Scorpion will likely be H.petersii which doesn't grow as large as the two former species.
 

TreeTops1015

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Messages
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Of the more common species of Heterometrus species, the largest ones are H.longimanus and H.spinifer only problem is that the most common Heterometrus sold under the generic name of Asian Forest Scorpion will likely be H.petersii which doesn't grow as large as the two former species.
Any visual difference between those species???I tried searching up both of those species and it keeps saying they are all Asian forest scorpions which only grow to 4.7 inches.thanks for the help
 

Outpost31Survivor

Arachnoprince
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Any visual difference between those species???
They are best identified by experienced persons with a trained eye, it has to do with the number of and pattern of granulations on the prosoma (head part).

Pic 1 - H.spinifer
Pic 2 - H.longimanus
Pic 3 - H.laoticus & H.petersii

I am not aware any truly reliable instant visual cues for the untrained eye to use. But if one has a jeweller's magnifying loupe they may be capable of IDing a Heterometrus on their own but they should realize their ID can also be very fallible too. That they could very well misidentify. However, H.longimanus has a very striking sexual dimorphism in that males have especially elongated claws.
 

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