Help wanted with Urodacus sp. Yaschenkoi, Elongatus and Novaehollandiae

[RezonantVoid]

Hi guys. Ive been keeping Australian scorpions for almost a decade now. Mostly it has been black rock, little marbled and a Flinders range scorpion, so recently I decided it was time to increase the variety. I got urodacus armatus, yaschenkoi, Novaehollandiae, a new elongatus since my previous one passed away from old age, and a liocheles waigiensis. So far the waigiensis and armatus are doing great and are happy but my other 3 aren't doing so well. Yaschenkoi is kept in a large sealed container with damp sand and Coco peat, elongatus is in the same sized container with air holes and much more Coco peat to burrow in and Novaehollandiae is in one about half the size but with adequate substrate, air holes and room to burrow. All 3 are eating well and fairly active but refuse to gain any weight and are becoming extremely thin. They come out every night pacing the sides of the containers and tap on the sides. I will add a photo of their containers, the big ones are about 40x40x20cm and smaller one maybe 25-30x20x20cm. Does anyone have any suggestions to improve their setup or make them feel at home. The picture 1 is Novaehollandiae, 2 is elongatus and 3 yaschenkoi is not visible but directly below 2 and identical.

 

[Dave Jay]

You've been keeping scorpions longer than I have, but now you have desert scorpions rather than scorpions from higher rainfall areas. The yaschenkoi and armatus come from the same habitat, with the yasch out on the open sand and the armatus in the heavier soil where there are trees and ground cover. The nova live in coastal arid areas, often in shell grit according to Mark Newton. For his advice look on The Spiral Burrow site and at the caresheets on The Green Scorpions site, which is defunct now, but the pages are still up. I have read his book over and over for a few years and it's invaluable really, but unfortunately it's out of print now.
There are two methods I've used with these species, the preferred method for me is a false bottom, high ventilation method using straight sand that is dry on top and kept moist on the bottom via the false bottom tube. No water is added to the surface at all. With armatus you should add some cover in the form of bark and sticks, with the yasch and nova no decor is needed, in nature they are in the sandy clearings not among the bushes or leaf litter, just burrows in open sand. I will post photos of where I've found them in the Murray Mallee later so you can see.
The other method is to have a long rectangular tub with as much sand as you can pack in. Water is added to one end and the other end is allowed to dry. The dry end has plenty of ventilation holes, the damp end has minimal.
In both cases you will have to start with damp sand so that you can pack it down as you add it bit by bit. Usually I will start a burrow in a good viewing place, but the scorps often don't agree with my choice.
To start a burrow I will poke a knife handle or a stick into the sand, pack the sand around it and spray water while I pull it out . I also spray the whole surface of the sand, cleaning the walls and any decor with the spray. Spraying is the best way to clean the sand off, it makes it neater and more natural looking, and when it dries the sand has a hard surface and sets almost like concrete does, burrows don't collapse and can take you moving the container around. Of course this means you need to set things up a day or two before moving the scorpions.
Apart from the Flinders Ranges these species are fairly susceptible to mycosis and shouldn't be kept in tubs on damp coco peat for too long.
I set my Flinders up much the same as how I've described, except that they are scrape dwellers so rocks and/or a hide are needed and I don't have the substrate so deep. They can do quite well in a tub, but I prefer the other methods. They can also have a peat/sand mix high in peat, but I moved to keeping them on straight sand. They will drink free water but prefer droplets on the walls or decor to actually drinking from a dish, yaschenkoi and nova will not drink free water so misting or having a water dish is not needed. Armatus like to sit on misted branches but don't seem to drink the water . Mark Newton showed that armatus can absorb water from a damp substrate, and says that is the case with yasch and nova too as long as the sands grain size is large enough, basically just not very fine sand.
I hope that helps a bit, I can't write a book here on the forum! Chase up those care sheets though, if they have Marks name on them I trust them, even if I don't follow them exactly.
Best of luck!

 

[RezonantVoid]

You've been keeping scorpions longer than I have, but now you have desert scorpions rather than scorpions from higher rainfall areas. The yaschenkoi and armatus come from the same habitat, with the yasch out on the open sand and the armatus in the heavier soil where there are trees and ground cover. The nova live in coastal arid areas, often in shell grit according to Mark Newton. For his advice look on The Spiral Burrow site and at the caresheets on The Green Scorpions site, which is defunct now, but the pages are still up. I have read his book over and over for a few years and it's invaluable really, but unfortunately it's out of print now.
There are two methods I've used with these species, the preferred method for me is a false bottom, high ventilation method using straight sand that is dry on top and kept moist on the bottom via the false bottom tube. No water is added to the surface at all. With armatus you should add some cover in the form of bark and sticks, with the yasch and nova no decor is needed, in nature they are in the sandy clearings not among the bushes or leaf litter, just burrows in open sand. I will post photos of where I've found them in the Murray Mallee later so you can see.
The other method is to have a long rectangular tub with as much sand as you can pack in. Water is added to one end and the other end is allowed to dry. The dry end has plenty of ventilation holes, the damp end has minimal.
In both cases you will have to start with damp sand so that you can pack it down as you add it bit by bit. Usually I will start a burrow in a good viewing place, but the scorps often don't agree with my choice.
To start a burrow I will poke a knife handle or a stick into the sand, pack the sand around it and spray water while I pull it out . I also spray the whole surface of the sand, cleaning the walls and any decor with the spray. Spraying is the best way to clean the sand off, it makes it neater and more natural looking, and when it dries the sand has a hard surface and sets almost like concrete does, burrows don't collapse and can take you moving the container around. Of course this means you need to set things up a day or two before moving the scorpions.
Apart from the Flinders Ranges these species are fairly susceptible to mycosis and shouldn't be kept in tubs on damp coco peat for too long.
I set my Flinders up much the same as how I've described, except that they are scrape dwellers so rocks and/or a hide are needed and I don't have the substrate so deep. They can do quite well in a tub, but I prefer the other methods. They can also have a peat/sand mix high in peat, but I moved to keeping them on straight sand. They will drink free water but prefer droplets on the walls or decor to actually drinking from a dish, yaschenkoi and nova will not drink free water so misting or having a water dish is not needed. Armatus like to sit on misted branches but don't seem to drink the water . Mark Newton showed that armatus can absorb water from a damp substrate, and says that is the case with yasch and nova too as long as the sands grain size is large enough, basically just not very fine sand.
I hope that helps a bit, I can't write a book here on the forum! Chase up those care sheets though, if they have Marks name on them I trust them, even if I don't follow them exactly.
Best of luck!

Thx a million, I will move my yasch out to a larger tank asap so it isn't on Coco peat for too long. I will chase up Mark's care sheets too. I'll send pics of them in new setups soon

 

[Dave Jay]

Thx a million, I will move my yasch out to a larger tank asap so it isn't on Coco peat for too long. I will chase up Mark's care sheets too. I'll send pics of them in new setups soon

Yes, look them up, there's not really any other sources for info on Australian scorps bar a few pet shop sites. Nothing happens overnight with scorpions as you know, so there's no need to rush too much.

 

[RezonantVoid]

How much sand would you recommend for yasch and nova? Would 200mm on top of a 25mm false bottom suffice? I think Mark said preferably more but Im tryna keep costs low if it's possible. This is how big my Yaschenkoi is

 

[Dave Jay]

How much sand would you recommend for yasch and nova? Would 200mm on top of a 25mm false bottom suffice? I think Mark said preferably more but Im tryna keep costs low if it's possible. This is how big my Yaschenkoi is

It looks like you have an adult, it's a nice looking scorp!
I use as much sand as possible, 20cm is about the most any get though because otherwise it brings the surface too close to the top of the tank. I buy all my sand and gravel from a landscape supply yard with a weighbridge though, so the cost is minimal. I fill the boot up with buckets and shovel it in. If it's $40 a tonne , 100kg is only $4 and I usually don't even get that much. I was using granite gravel for the false bottom because it is inert, but so is scoria and it's much lighter.