Help!!!!! Sick p Metallica

[Claireandgreg]

Hi all, I'm new to this forum and I'm after some help/advice. I brought my partner a P. metallica as he has been after one for quite some time. Noticed she hasn't been eating since we have had her so assumed she was going to molt. We've had her roughly 1 month now. Yesterday while misting her tank we noticed she didn't move, she usually moves her legs about when we mist. I've picked her up and she's still not moved. She's not curled up and her abdomen is still plump. I've put her in icu hoping for the best but I'm not sure if she has passed away? This is her in icu

 

[boina]

Take her out of the ICU immediately. That's a good way to kill her faster if she isn't already dead.

How often did you 'mist' her and how heavily did you mist? A humid, stuffy enclosure is a good way to slowly kill any tarantula - and an ICU is just a very small, very humid, extra stuffy enclosure. It only helps with proven dehydration and then only maybe. Poecilotherias do very well in dry enclosures. Post a pic of your setup. Maybe we can figure out why she's in the shape she's in.

 

[Greasylake]

An icu is probably one of the worst things you can do a spider, but if a high strung species like a pokie isnt moving around when you pick it up, I'd say its safe to assume its dead. Was it upside down when you moved it? If so you disturbed its molt.

 

[Claireandgreg]

I'll take her out as I was told
To try this. She was just sitting on her log she has. Wasn't on the floor and wasn't curled up.

 

[KezyGLA]

I am sorry but I think she has already passed

 

[Claireandgreg]

This is her enclosure

 

[boina]

This is her enclosure

That's not an enclosure, that's a death trap. As I said: a humid and stuffy enclosure kills any tarantula. This looks not only humid, but extremely so and where is the ventilation?? In the lid? Did you cover the lid to keep 'humidity' in, as it looks from the pic? Before you get another tarantula it would be a very good idea to actually find out how to keep one. I'm sorry, but I'm upset - I've rarely seen such an obviously detrimental setup. It was unlikely from the start that any tarantula would survive that enclosure.

To keep a Poecilotheria you need:

1. A tall enclosure (you got that right at least) with good cross ventilation! Cross ventilation is especially necessary in a tall enclosure because otherwise you've stagnant air at the bottom and stagnant air is a killer.

2. Sufficient and mostly DRY substrate. Even Poecilotherias do like to burrow occasionally, especially when younger, and all like to put up dirt curtains.

3. A piece of bark that provides good acess to the substrate - they do like to incorporate substrate into their webs.

3. Do NOT mist, ever.

Your tarantula died from an overly humid enclosure and a lack of ventilation - that much is more than obvious.

 

[Claireandgreg]

The ventilation is on the side and this is how we got it from the shop. We was going to put her in the exoterra we have but because we thought she was in pre molt we didn't want to disturb her

 

[boina]

The ventilation is on the side and this is how we got it from the shop. We was going to put her in the exoterra we have but because we thought she was in pre molt we didn't want to disturb her

That goes to show - again - how little shops know about the animals they sell.

 

[PidderPeets]

The ventilation is on the side and this is how we got it from the shop. We was going to put her in the exoterra we have but because we thought she was in pre molt we didn't want to disturb her

When it comes to invertebrates, I would never follow the advice of general pet shops. In all the pet stores I've ever been in with tarantulas, I have never seen an adequate enclosure. I've had to flag down employees and tell them how wrong the setup is and what they need to do to correct it more times than I can count. And in most cases, I'll come back a few weeks later to see the same awful setup.

That tiny strip of ventilation I see near the top of the enclosure is almost the same as just having top ventilation. In that tall enclosure, you'd need ventilation lower to the ground as well as higher up. Otherwise, air will just linger leaving any excess humidity trapped, at the detriment of your tarantula.

For any future tarantulas, please please please do more research than just abiding by what the pet store tells you. I know people generally trust the word of pet stores (they trust care sheets as well, which are also remarkably incorrect), but ultimately, the only goal of pet stores is to keep their animals alive long enough to sell them. To them, the animal is simply a product. Tarantulas can be quite hardy, so they can suffer for a long time in enclosures that will ultimately kill them. It's up to you to make sure that the setup is truly what's best for the animal.

May I ask if you have experience with any other tarantula species? The current setup, the fact that you didn't know any better, and especially the fact that you actually picked up a Poecilotheria (no matter how lethargic) make me question your experience level. P. metallica is considered an advanced species that's known for being fast, temperamental, and with the venom potency to back up their attitudes. Any Poecilotheria sp. would have to be dead and decomposing for me to willingly pick one up (although then I still wouldn't because that would be gross).

I'm sorry for your loss, but take this as a lesson to research thoroughly before buying and never exclusively follow pet stores. This website has a plethora of proper care for more species than you'd even think exist. Many of us are here to help, but unfortunately we can't do anything if you ask for help too late. All we can do at that point is criticize setups and reprimand, and that doesn't really do anything positive for anyone.

 

[JanPhilip]

1. A tall enclosure (you got that right at least) with good cross ventilation! Cross ventilation is especially necessary in a tall enclosure because otherwise you've stagnant air at the bottom and stagnant air is a killer.

2. Sufficient and mostly DRY substrate. Even Poecilotherias do like to burrow occasionally, especially when younger, and all like to put up dirt curtains.

3. A piece of bark that provides good acess to the substrate - they do like to incorporate substrate into their webs.

3. Do NOT mist, ever.

Your tarantula died from an overly humid enclosure and a lack of ventilation - that much is more than obvious.

It is true that cross-ventilation is a great benefit and makes keeping them easier. However, your claim that you should keep all Poecilotheria very dry and never mist is just plain wrong. It is true that some species of Poecilotheria come from areas that experience excessive dry periods, but they also get a heavy rainy season and retreat to hollow trees etc with a higher ambient humidity than what is found outside. Other species of Poecilotheria live in areas that are humid more or less all year round. There is a great variation between the habitats of different species. The key to keeping a happy and healthy Poecilotheria, in general, is keeping them moist, but not wet, and avoid overly stagnant air. Letting them dry out a bit, but not completely, between misting and not drowning the cage when misting is an easy way to achieve this. A decent amount of substrate is also good, not just because it allows them to create dirt curtains etc, but especially because it makes it much easier to provide a stable environment.

Also, although it is possible that the lack of ventilation killed the tarantula, it is only a possibility. It is possible to keep and raise them successfully without cross-ventilation, although it is not advisable. I know of people who bred P. subfusca, one of the trickier species, in 1,5l cola bottles.

 

[boina]

The key to keeping a happy and healthy Poecilotheria, in general, is keeping them moist, but not wet, and avoid overly stagnant air.

Right. Meaning you need to be able to balance out moisture and ventilation. How does that fit with the dripping wet, barely ventilated enclosure in the pic?

There is a great variation between the habitats of different species.

Habitats are a rather bad lead when it comes to tarantulas in captivity. First of all you will never be able to recreate their habitat in the wild with all it's variables and you won't know what essential variables you are missing. Temps and 'humidity' isn't everything. What about air flow, micro-climate, etc.? And you don't know what factors of their natural environment the tarantula in question really needs and what it only just survives. The idea that animals are optimally adapted to their environment has been discarded decades ago. Evolution keeps everything that somehow works - it doesn't need to be the best possible solution and rarely is. Second, in their habitat in the wild most tarantulas don't survive anyway.

You need to find something that works in captivity. Their natural environment can give you hints but it is by no means the best or last authority.

between misting and not drowning the cage when misting

Why would you want to mist anything? You either poor water directly into the substrate or you leave them dry. Keeping Poecilotheria dry is a safe way to keep them, even for an inexperienced keeper. Keeping them moist is good, but much more difficult to balance. P. metallica especially is not a species that depends on moisture.

However, your claim that you should keep all Poecilotheria very dry

Again: Keeping them dry is safe - especially for a keeper that obviously doesn't know what she is doing. Keeping them moist is more difficult as people tend to overdo it, as seen here.

Edit: I looked it up and I said mostly dry, not very dry...

Also, although it is possible that the lack of ventilation killed the tarantula, it is only a possibility. It is possible to keep and raise them successfully without cross-ventilation, although it is not advisable.

What I said was: It's the combination of lack of cross ventilation and excess of moisture that killed the tarantula - and that's not possible but very, very likely. Sometimes they make it without cross ventilation - and sometimes they don't. They rarely make it without cross ventilation AND plenty of moisture.

Nothing what you said had any relevance to the original problem, so what did you want to achieve here?

 

[NukaMedia Exotics]

This is due to the fact you misted a tarantula that doesn't need that at all, but needs dry substrate with a water dish. This is one of the species that isn't too forgiving of mistakes...

 

[Vinny2915]

I keep all my pokies on moist substrate. They aren't from an arid environment so I don't keep them as such. I used to spray and they were fine then I stopped and they are also fine. The fact that many people keep them moist with no issues, and completely dry with no issues, sprays or doesn't spray and has no issues shows that arguing, or even discussing who is right or wrong is pointless. I think we are just overcomplicating things. As long as your substrate isn't soaked, and you have side ventilation you're poecilotheria will be fine. I have seen this with avics as well. I keep mine moist but have really good ventilation. Just a word of advise for next time. As long as you have cross ventilation, substrate isnt soaked, and you have a water dish you'll be fine.

This is due to the fact you misted a tarantula that doesn't need that at all, but needs dry substrate with a water dish. This is one of the species that isn't too forgiving of mistakes...

Doesn't NEED dry, but can survive as such. Spraying and moist substrate is not what killed it. It is lack of ventilation in conjunction with the wet environment making it stuffy. I am not saying you're wrong by any means just saying it needs more elaboration because many people spray and keep moist with no issues whatsoever because of good ventilation.

 

[JanPhilip]

1) Habitats are a rather bad lead when it comes to tarantulas in captivity. First of all you will never be able to recreate their habitat in the wild with all it's variables and you won't know what essential variables you are missing. Temps and 'humidity' isn't everything. What about air flow, micro-climate, etc.? And you don't know what factors of their natural environment the tarantula in question really needs and what it only just survives. The idea that animals are optimally adapted to their environment has been discarded decades ago. Evolution keeps everything that somehow works - it doesn't need to be the best possible solution and rarely is. Second, in their habitat in the wild most tarantulas don't survive anyway.

2) Why would you want to mist anything? You either poor water directly into the substrate or you leave them dry. Keeping Poecilotheria dry is a safe way to keep them, even for an inexperienced keeper. Keeping them moist is good, but much more difficult to balance. P. metallica especially is not a species that depends on moisture.

3) Again: Keeping them dry is safe - especially for a keeper that obviously doesn't know what she is doing. Keeping them moist is more difficult as people tend to overdo it, as seen here.

4) Nothing what you said had any relevance to the original problem, so what did you want to achieve here?

1) This is exactly my point, even though some come from a harsh and often dry environment, they find places with a more hospitable and moist environment. Therefore, in captivity, you want to mimic the micro-climate of these places, which for Poecilotheria are seldom completely dry.

2) I also poor water in the substrate for my Tarantulas to keep plants alive etc, but misting is a nice way to periodically boost humidity without over-saturating the substrate and it also gives the animal a chance to drink. I have no negative experiences with it so far and find it wrong to tell people they should not do it. In Europe it is a very common and accepted practice.

3) Try raising slings completely dry. I think you will find you have significantly more losses than if you keep them moist. The key point is that they should not be wet or stagnant.

4) Everything I said has a relevance to the problem. This keeper had an issue, which as you pointed out was possibly caused by a wet substrate and stagnant air. However, you proceed to give what I find very bad advice on how to keep Poecilotheria, so to give OP some perspective I add what I think is a better way of keeping them.

 

[Anoplogaster]

To keep a Poecilotheria you need:

Experience.

 

[boina]

you want to mimic the micro-climate of these places,

My point was: You can't. First of all, there's constant air movement - you can't mimic that. Then there's a well balanced population of microorganisms all over, preventing outbreaks of pathogens by simply competing for resources. That's another thing you can't mimic at all. Therefore it is often a good idea to keep a tarantula in less moisture than it would encounter in the wild - and I'm not talking about slings. Moisture increases the chance for breeding pathogens - a lot.

Then you don't know what part of the environment the tarantula really needs and what part it only tolerates. Example from a very different animal: Naked mole rats in the wild live in an environment that's really low in oxygen, often in the single digits. They tolerate that environment because it has other advantages, but they don't need low oxigen. In fact they thrive much better in a lab environment with normal oxigen. A tarantula may live in a humid environment because it has other advantages, but it still may not need humidity - at all. Or maybe it does. My point is: the habitat won't tell you that. References to the habitat are simply a flawed argument.

Even microclimates won't really tell you much about a tarantula's needs.

For Poecilotheria: moisture is fine (and necessary for slings, but we weren't talking about slings here), but a dry environment offers much less hazards and opportunities for getting it wrong.

And don't get me started on European keeping habits. There are so many completely unscientific and unproven myths running around it's freightening. Just because something works doesn't mean it's optimal - or even just good.

 

[cold blood]

but misting is a nice way to periodically boost humidity

There are so many completely unscientific and unproven myths running around it's frightening

Like the above quote.

1. misting doesn't boost humidity, not for more than 20 min or so anyway.

2. Humidity is not relevant, for those that claim it to require it, its really damp sub that's needed, not moisture in the air. A t cannot get moisture from the air...fact is that any t can be kept at almost any humidity level. A person's ambient humidity merely dictates how much and how often one needs to add water to the substrate.

 

[JanPhilip]

I do not think we will have to agree to disagree on this. In the end there are many ways to be successful and they probably depend heavily on your local climate as well. But here are my thoughts:

Therefore it is often a good idea to keep a tarantula in less moisture than it would encounter in the wild - and I'm not talking about slings. Moisture increases the chance for breeding pathogens - a lot.

Less moisture does not equate to dry and I in my experience pathogens are not of much concern, unless keeping dry-adapted species too wet.

References to the habitat are simply a flawed argument. Even microclimates won't really tell you much about a tarantula's needs.

I really heavily disagree with this. It is a matter of interpreting the habitat data the right way. Obviously it does not go well if you see that the average humidity in the natural range is 80% and you put an animal under those conditions without proper ventilation.

And don't get me started on European keeping habits. There are so many completely unscientific and unproven myths running around it's freightening. Just because something works doesn't mean it's optimal - or even just good.

I think this goes both ways. Many things which are accepted as the standard today might change with time. But I still think successful keeping and breeding over multiple generations should be worth something.

1. misting doesn't boost humidity, not for more than 20 min or so anyway.

It depends what you count as misting. If you only lightly spray the enclosures walls, obviously it will not last long. However, I predominantly mist some of my species, which includes spraying the substrate enough for it to stay moist as well as providing drinking opportunities for the animal. The end result is basically the same as pouring water in the substrate, but I prefer it this way. I feel like it is easier to not over do it.

2. Humidity is not relevant, for those that claim it to require it, its really damp sub that's needed, not moisture in the air. A t cannot get moisture from the air...fact is that any t can be kept at almost any humidity level. A person's ambient humidity merely dictates how much and how often one needs to add water to the substrate.

I think it of it as the same thing, but it might be a bit misleading to people starting out in the hobby. A moist substrate will provide a stable and humid environment over time, even with adequate ventilation. The tarantula might not be able to get fluids from the air, but an animal which is adapted to a humid environment will likely desiccate faster if kept under dry conditions and require a much higher fluid uptake to keep in balance than a species which is adapted to those conditions.

 

[Kitty Estes]

I killed several beautiful spiders with misting before I knew better, The caresheets on the net are wrong they just need a nice sized waterbowl filled at all times....No they will not drown.