Help me properly fill a 20 gallon long

Screamingreenmachine

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Jun 30, 2016
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So I have a 20 gallon long (30inx13inx13in) that my sister left when she moved and it's sitting around taking up space in my house. I was originally planning to house a colony of smaller scorpions but after some thought, I'd rather not have 20+ scorpions for my first inverts. It would be my luck that I would lose count of how many are in the enclosure and one might vanish and it will be found in a bad way. I then looked at a few larger species of scorps to keep as tank mates and the larger, less potent ones that are capable of being held in a communal setting don't really strike an interest like they used to. Well after looking around on here to get a few more ideas, I saw a GBB and instantly fell in love. After seeing it I started to dig deeper into T's and every single one I saw I wanted to buy. Went to my local exotics shop and spent a few minutes with one of theirs (Acanthoscurria geniculata) and loved how amazing of a creature it was. I used to be terrified of them but something changed really quickly.

I've been reading around and researching all over the internet, getting an idea on what I should expect with the care and I've found that a 20 is really too big for all but the largest in a single specimen setup. I'm thinking of trying to partition the tank into 2 or 3 separate enclosures with taking all precautions to prevent any T from getting into another's place. Read to many horror stories of finding a fat T and a missing one. If I can manage to make an appropriate enclosure, I have my eyes set on slings of both Grammostola pulchra and Chromatapelma cyaneopubescens and if I have a 3rd partition maybe a scorp of some form. I'm worried about the environmental needs of each animal but I'm assuming that a properly sealed off partition is equivalent to just another tank that can have it's own environment? If I decide I am not comfortable with my splitting of the tank, I'll look into a larger species such as Lasiodora parahybana. I'd be more than happy to trade off or sell my tank for a few 5s except a certain someone is happier with one larger tank than a few little ones. No say in that matter :(.

I'm really open to all advice, tips, as well as other possible species to look at! I'm used to ferrets and dogs so inverts are a totally new ball game for me. Also I don't plan to handle them often and would prefer to just watch, water, and feed them.
 

EulersK

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Well, you should be scared of that A. geniculata! They are bitey little things. Easy to care for, though, so long as you have respect for a fast spider that is always ready to bite. You're right to say that a 20 gallon is too large for pretty much any spider, so I'm glad to see you've done a bit of research. Kudos to you for that. I would not try to partition the tank unless you really know what you're doing. That's a great way to end up with one fat spider, which you brought up. However, if you're confident in sectioning off an aquarium (which I've done successfully), then it actually works quite well. Just don't cut any corners. You are correct in saying that they would function like separate enclosures - personally, I had a humid loving species right next to an arid one.

You may want to look into getting an adult of some large species - L. parahybana, A. geniculata, T. stirmi, etc. Unfortunately, none of those are beginner species. The A. geniculata is arguably a beginner species, although the adults could be a handful if you have no prior experience with tarantulas. However, with any of those species, you could create a beautiful aquarium with plants, logs, and the like. Check out the Vivarium subforum for some ideas.

I'd suggest getting a juvenile A. geniculata and keep it in an appropriate sized enclosure. When it puts on some inches, transfer it into that beautiful 20gal. It will be large, but that just means that you'll have plenty of room to make it look nice.
 

Blackout14

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May 12, 2016
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203
If you fill the tank half with sub and a lot of plants and soft things like cork bark with a decent sized spider I don't see much of an issue. Lp are pretty bulletproof get a good size and I would say are a decent beginner bigger species. Just watch the hairs
 

shining

Arachnodemon
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Messages
755
I second the A. geniculata. I have mine in a ten gallon and it is not enough room for her to my liking.

I intend to build with the dimensions of a 20 long or customize a 20 long glass tank.

I can also attest to the A. genic's pissy attitude. I get hairs kicked at me half of the time I do maintenance, the other half she just sits there like a rock. There are times she pounces on my tools thinking it's food too, their feeding response is voracious.

All in all, great display T. Always out in plain view and pothos can do very well with their husbandry needs.

Not necessarily a beginner T but not too far down the rabbit hole.
 

viper69

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I'm thinking of trying to partition the tank into 2 or 3 separate enclosures with taking all precautions to prevent any T from getting into another's place.
Good luck on that, not impossible mind you, generally not advised. Just make sure you have individual top opening access points.

Grammostola pulchra and Chromatapelma cyaneopubescens
Couldn't go wrong w/either one there. Completely different behaviors mind you.
 

Screamingreenmachine

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Jun 30, 2016
Messages
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Well, you should be scared of that A. geniculata! They are bitey little things. Easy to care for, though, so long as you have respect for a fast spider that is always ready to bite. You're right to say that a 20 gallon is too large for pretty much any spider, so I'm glad to see you've done a bit of research. Kudos to you for that. I would not try to partition the tank unless you really know what you're doing. That's a great way to end up with one fat spider, which you brought up. However, if you're confident in sectioning off an aquarium (which I've done successfully), then it actually works quite well. Just don't cut any corners. You are correct in saying that they would function like separate enclosures - personally, I had a humid loving species right next to an arid one.

You may want to look into getting an adult of some large species - L. parahybana, A. geniculata, T. stirmi, etc. Unfortunately, none of those are beginner species. The A. geniculata is arguably a beginner species, although the adults could be a handful if you have no prior experience with tarantulas. However, with any of those species, you could create a beautiful aquarium with plants, logs, and the like. Check out the Vivarium subforum for some ideas.

I'd suggest getting a juvenile A. geniculata and keep it in an appropriate sized enclosure. When it puts on some inches, transfer it into that beautiful 20gal. It will be large, but that just means that you'll have plenty of room to make it look nice.
Yeah I really like to make sure I come on here asking questions after spending some time researching!
Now as far as partitioning goes... I have zero experience in this but it seems easy enough to do. Made a test one out of cardboard today to make sure my measurements were correct, cut the corners at the bottom a small amount to compensate for the silicone already there. Everything seemed to fit properly and what small gaps are there could be filled with the fresh silicone. I was thinking of setting up the top in the same sort of way the man in this video set up his but I would definitely add a locking mechanism to mine and possibly more ventilation, if that would be necessary, as my doors would be larger than that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CqM1IRlmI
I would have my local hardware store do the cutting of the actual partition walls and the rest I could do at home. I think I might get a piece cut and if I'm not comfortable with it in any way shape or form, I'll stick away from splitting. Would something set up like in the video be feasible or would that still bring on a problem?

I really have zero experience with T's other than with my sisters (she seems to have every kind of animal) so I'm definitely going to be cautious about getting into anything super huge, but I do really love the A. geniculata. Very striking markings. Little nervous about it being bitey, but I figure I've been bitten by worse haha! I'll definitely dig into the vivarium sub as the creation of the habitat is a large part of the joy I find in this, and I will spend some time really researching the A. geniculata.


I second the A. geniculata. I have mine in a ten gallon and it is not enough room for her to my liking.

I intend to build with the dimensions of a 20 long or customize a 20 long glass tank.

I can also attest to the A. genic's pissy attitude. I get hairs kicked at me half of the time I do maintenance, the other half she just sits there like a rock. There are times she pounces on my tools thinking it's food too, their feeding response is voracious.

All in all, great display T. Always out in plain view and pothos can do very well with their husbandry needs.

Not necessarily a beginner T but not too far down the rabbit hole.
Hello again! First my scorp thread and now here! And another for A. geniculata. Sounds like this one definitely has some fire which could really be a blast to watch I bet! The pet store one was more of a rock when I saw her :( as long as it isn't too much to handle, this probably will be the species I go for!

Good luck on that, not impossible mind you, generally not advised. Just make sure you have individual top opening access points.
Oh, separate lids is a definite must if I do try to split the tank!
 

shining

Arachnodemon
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[QUOTE="Screamingreenmachine, post: 2499319, member: 115339"




Hello again! First my scorp thread and now here! And another for A. geniculata. Sounds like this one definitely has some fire which could really be a blast to watch I bet! The pet store one was more of a rock when I saw her :( as long as it isn't too much to handle, this probably will be the species I go for! [/QUOTE]

Herro again, they definitely are entertaining during feeding time and during the times it thinks it's feeding time. That's basically what it is, a pet rock, always sitting there in the open for all to bask in it's still glory. Don't challenge it to a staring contest, 10/10 it will win.
 

EulersK

Arachnonomicon
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Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Messages
3,292
Yeah I really like to make sure I come on here asking questions after spending some time researching!
Now as far as partitioning goes... I have zero experience in this but it seems easy enough to do. Made a test one out of cardboard today to make sure my measurements were correct, cut the corners at the bottom a small amount to compensate for the silicone already there. Everything seemed to fit properly and what small gaps are there could be filled with the fresh silicone. I was thinking of setting up the top in the same sort of way the man in this video set up his but I would definitely add a locking mechanism to mine and possibly more ventilation, if that would be necessary, as my doors would be larger than that. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m0CqM1IRlmI
I would have my local hardware store do the cutting of the actual partition walls and the rest I could do at home. I think I might get a piece cut and if I'm not comfortable with it in any way shape or form, I'll stick away from splitting. Would something set up like in the video be feasible or would that still bring on a problem?

I really have zero experience with T's other than with my sisters (she seems to have every kind of animal) so I'm definitely going to be cautious about getting into anything super huge, but I do really love the A. geniculata. Very striking markings. Little nervous about it being bitey, but I figure I've been bitten by worse haha! I'll definitely dig into the vivarium sub as the creation of the habitat is a large part of the joy I find in this, and I will spend some time really researching the A. geniculata.




Hello again! First my scorp thread and now here! And another for A. geniculata. Sounds like this one definitely has some fire which could really be a blast to watch I bet! The pet store one was more of a rock when I saw her :( as long as it isn't too much to handle, this probably will be the species I go for!



Oh, separate lids is a definite must if I do try to split the tank!
In my experience, silicone doesn't hold onto acrylic even a little bit. I would stray very far away from that all together. I personally used a heavy dose of hot glue.

EDIT: This just occurred to me. If you buy a sheet of glass at a place like Lowe's, they'll actually cut it for you, free of charge. Then the silicone would work just fine. This is probably what I would do if I were you, as acrylic does tend to bow over time.
 
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Tim Benzedrine

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I really have zero experience with T's other than with my sisters (she seems to have every kind of animal) so I'm definitely going to be cautious about getting into anything super huge, but I do really love the A. geniculata. Very striking markings. Little nervous about it being bitey, but I figure I've been bitten by worse haha! I'll definitely dig into the vivarium sub as the creation of the habitat is a large part of the joy I find in this, and I will spend some time really researching the A. geniculata.




[/QUOTE]

There is a lot to love about A. geniculata. beautiful, relatively fast growers, and good eaters. Keep in mind though that a large spider's fangs are proportional. So you are looking at a potential deep puncture wound if you get unlucky. Like Eulers said, they are arguably a beginner's spider. In terms of the "ladder system" I consider them, along with L.parahybana, to name another, as 1.5 rungs on the ladder. Easy to care for, interesting to watch, but fast and with an almost legendary feeding response.
That said, I am currently more cautious with my E. campestratus, who, unlike my A. genic and L.P., launches itself at the slightest movement, while the LP and AG will skitter for cover if it quickly becomes apparent that it is not food invading their turf. And E. campestratus are generally considered a docile species, showing that you cannot necessarily depend on other's experience and should treat all tarantulas with respect.

I say get one if you want one, just heed the advice given concerning them.
 

Sana

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I am one who has had negative experiences with partitioning larger enclosures. All of the tarantulas involved came out of the experience alive but I did have escapes and enclosure opening nightmares. Knowing the things that I do now I could probably make a much more effective partitioned enclosure but I haven't tried it again. If I ever decide to do so, I will set up the entire enclosure and only fill one section for a couple of months. Assuming no issues after a couple of months I would fill the next section and do the same. The biggest issue that I see with a three section glass enclosure is that cross ventilation is very important with most species of tarantula. Learning to drill glass is a pretty involved thing. I'm working on learning to do so now but it requires some specialized tools and techniques to be done without just destroying the glass. It would require some serious thought on my part for what species I felt like I coud reasonably keep in that type of enclosure. As for working with A. geniculata (or any other species of tarantula really, especially faster, more defensive, or more food motivated species) the best approach is to know before you start that they are a display pet, like fish in an aquarium. Tarantulas don't get any benefit from being handled or bothered in general. To a tarantula you are just another enormous predator. When I do maintenance in my enclosures I never use my hands. I have tongs in various sizes ranging from about 12" to and 20". I also have syringes that I use to fill water bowls or add moisture to the substrate, and a flashlight that is capable of both red and white light. Red is the only wavelength that I know of that doesn't particularly disturb a tarantula. Even my calmest, most beginner appropriate, pet rock species don't get hands put in their enclosures. Tarantulas are mush faster then most folks realize and they are a wild animal that survive entirely on instinct. They are prone to mood swings and unpredictable behavior. Despite all that, tarantulas are a wonderful experience. I couldn't recommend them more highly as amazing, beautiful, fascinating pets.
 

Screamingreenmachine

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Jun 30, 2016
Messages
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Sorry for the slow reply everyone. It's been one of those days!
I've decided on A. geniculata as the one I'm going for. I'll also be able to snag a smaller enclosure to raise it in until it's ready for the big 20 and then I'll get possibly a Chromatopelma cyaneopubescens to fill the smaller enclosure later on down the road. Got the permission I needed!

Herro again, they definitely are entertaining during feeding time and during the times it thinks it's feeding time. That's basically what it is, a pet rock, always sitting there in the open for all to bask in it's still glory. Don't challenge it to a staring contest, 10/10 it will win.
The more I read this, the more I am wanting this species! I'm down for a long staring contest if it means I can get out of studying for a while. I'm really quite excited!

In my experience, silicone doesn't hold onto acrylic even a little bit. I would stray very far away from that all together. I personally used a heavy dose of hot glue.

EDIT: This just occurred to me. If you buy a sheet of glass at a place like Lowe's, they'll actually cut it for you, free of charge. Then the silicone would work just fine. This is probably what I would do if I were you, as acrylic does tend to bow over time.
Yup! Lowe's would measure and cut it for me for free but after spending some time really researching A. geniculata and realizing that it really is the right one, I'm going to go that route! Would rather not have any possible issues and would have one heck of a specimen for my first!

There is a lot to love about A. geniculata. beautiful, relatively fast growers, and good eaters... concerning them.
I'm going the A. geniculata route after all! I won't jump into purchasing one until I've done my homework and feel confident in giving it the appropriate life and understanding how it acts so I will have some idea of what to expect. I'll definitely do my best to avoid a deep puncture wound! I've had enough of those for one lifetime. So I'll handle it very little, if at all and will let it just do it's thing in the enclosure!

I am one who has had negative experiences with partitioning larger enclosures... beautiful, fascinating pets.
Thank you for this! This and a few other posts have pushed me away from trying the partition right now. Even though I have the confidence to make one, I'd rather just have a large habitat for a large specimen without the fear and worry of possibly doing the whole partition thing wrong and watching an expensive purchase being sucked up by another. Glass drilling is really fun, at leas to me! It's been ages since I tried and I'm tempted to try it again.

I will definitely treat it as a display pet as I want to do my best to prevent it from having any stress and give it a long happy life. I'll get myself some of those long tongs to use. The more I read, the more I can tell that A. geniculata is the right way for me to go with a large enclosure. Beautiful creature and I just cannot wait to finally have one after ages of looking into inverts.
 

beaker41

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As to partitioning tanks, I haven't had any problems since I installed a shim to close the critical gap between the top of the partition and the lid. I 3D printed my shims but they wouldn't be hard to fab out of any plastic and silicone in place. As long as you get a firm seal with the lid then you'll have no escape issues. Personally I put anything over 3" into a 1/4 10 gallon. I buy my own glass at lowes and cut it myself, a $10 tool and a long metal ruler is all that's required. I mask everything off real nice and seal it all with 100% clear silicone. For the lids I seperate it into three sections, the front and the middle in glass and the back in acrylic. I drill 2" holes in the back acrylic section for vents and sometimes seal it to the top rim of the tank with silicone. I haven't had any adhesion issues with glass on glass plastic or acrylic. The acrylic pieces are certainly easier to remove than the glass if you decide you need a teardown and rebuild.
Example of a three way I keep 4"ers in
 

Screamingreenmachine

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First off, beaker, thank you for that picture and detailed description on how you partitioned the tank! It looks fantastic there!

I have an annoying habit of researching the heck out of everything before ever jumping into something and after a lot of reading, studying, and dreaming, I have kind of been turned off of NW's. I think they are all absolutely gorgeous and I love the monsters, but the idea of the urticating hairs is really putting me off of them. I'm not the only one living in this house, but I am the only one with the true desire to get a T, and I'm worried about the hairs getting into the air, around my bedroom, desk, clothes, and possibly bothering everyone else. If I lived on my own I would be fine because I'd just set the T's up in a separate room instead of my bedroom. Maybe I'm being too paranoid, but the images and videos I've seen of reactions make me a bit nervous. I just feel more comfortable avoiding a nastier bite from an OW because I can see the T, than avoiding these tiny, floating, irritating hairs that NW's love to have.

Now if I'm being too paranoid, someone slap me around and I'll go for my NW's that I love. Acanthoscurria geniculata and Chromatapelma cyaneopubescens, or maybe or maybe a mix of Acanthoscurria geniculata and Ceratogyrus darlingi.
(Oh by the way, getting 2 T's. Will store them in appropriate sized containers housed within the 20 gallon while they grow and while I collect the right pieces for the large enclosure. After that I'll move them to their respective adult enclosures)

Because of this I've been researching OWs, and the baboons really strike a massive interest to me. I love their attitudes and both Ceratogyrus darlingi (These just look so peculiar and prehistoric with that horn... absolutely LOVE them) and Pelinobius muticus have become very attractive to me. I won't jump into an OW without a really good understanding of what could be coming out of the box in the mail. I've watched way to many videos, read many threads (including bite reports), and have what seems to be a somewhat decent idea of what to expect. I also love Lampropelma violaceopes.

So really, what it comes too, am I being too paranoid about the hairs? And will OW's really be too hard to handle for a new owner raising them from slings? They seem easy enough to manage when taking the right precautions (I won't be sticking a hand in any enclosure unless necessary and if I do, I have some massively thick welding gloves that might hopefully prevent any bad strike if one feels the need to do just that).
 

Blackout14

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Your being too paranoid. These the hairs can be a bit of a pain some are downright nasty but not as bad an idea of going into your cage with welding gloves on with an old world. All your doing is going to give him traction to run up your arm. Trust my my wife would rather have the off chance of getting haired in the rare occasion that she even goes near the tank and it manages to get out the plexy top then one of my ow running around the house. From everything I just read you are not ready for an old world saying you won't reach in with you hand unless you "have too". You should never have to I have been keeping for 10 years combined and have never had to reach into an old world tank. That mindset will get you bit I got complacent once with one on the other end of its tank in a burrow it was on my arm faster then I could blink. Stick with nw ts
 

Blackout14

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And you have a few old worlds on your list that are known for being extremely fast an bitey. I would say a p irminia is a good stepping stone spider no hairs but again extremely quick and strong bite but not as bad as an obt per say. But I would stick with the new worlds for now
 

Trenor

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So really, what it comes too, am I being too paranoid about the hairs? And will OW's really be too hard to handle for a new owner raising them from slings? They seem easy enough to manage when taking the right precautions (I won't be sticking a hand in any enclosure unless necessary and if I do, I have some massively thick welding gloves that might hopefully prevent any bad strike if one feels the need to do just that).
Yes you are. The hairs are not bad for the most part and a lot of people have a number of them in their bedrooms with no problems.

Although people have done ok with OWs early I would recommend at least a few NW Ts to get started with so you can learn the basics without the worry of a faster/more venomous T thrown into the mix. Regardless of NW or OW don't stick your hand in the enclosure. Use tongs/long hemostats to work in the enclosures. Even a NW will jump at them sometimes if they think the movement is food.

Acanthoscurria geniculata and Chromatapelma cyaneopubescens
These would work out well to start with IMO.

You have time, get a few NW then decide what you want next. If you have more questions let us know.

Good luck.
 
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Screamingreenmachine

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Thank you both of you. Made me feel better about getting NW's! I was worried that I was being too paranoid. I'll definitely go with the 2 NW's I've been eyeing here for a while. Acanthoscurria geniculata and Chromatapelma cyaneopubescens.

One last question before I pull the trigger on two slings this week. I'll be heading out of town for a week toward the end of August. Would both slings be okay for a week without food? What tips would you give for preparing them for the week? I've read that they can go upwards of 2 weeks without food. The A. geniculata will be around 1/4 to 1/2 inch and C. cyaneopubescens will be a little over 1 inch.
 

Sana

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All of my tarantulas, both OW and NW are in my bedroom. We've never had an incident with hairs outside of an enclosure causing problems. Besides my partner and I we have kids, dogs, and cats that run through our bedroom without any issues. I wouldn't personally worry about hairs.

As far as getting NW vs. OW, I would encourage you to get the NW species that have caught your interest. I don't aim to be offensive or to tell you what you can or can't do, but the folks here that are suggesting waiting on the OWs that have caught your fancy are offering solid advice. It isn't advice that has anything to do with you as a person but an attempt to help you not end up in a really bad situation. The users that have been here for a while and are making the recommendation are the ones that have seen folks jump into OWs against advice and then have varying levels of serious issues immediately. There was a thread in the last month that followed this exact pattern. Someone wanted to get a couple OWs, folks said that it probably wasn't a good idea, the user went ahead and got the OWs, and within a couple weeks had another thread running with a series of troubles working with the tarantulas. The result that I've seen most often over time with this scenario is a keeper that ends up with a tarantula that they are afraid of and unable to work with. Other instances of this same scenario have ended in escapes, bites, and general mayhem. And those are only examples that I have seen since I've been a member.

Bottom line in my book, NW hairs can be a pain but are an issue within the enclosure or while it's open. I would recommend giving those beauties a shot though. I can't say enough wonderful things about my big, hairy NWs, from their looks to their attitudes and interesting behaviors.
 

Chris LXXIX

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The NW hair issue is a giant exageration for me. NW hairs are an issue only when eyes and lungs (how that's possible but) are involved, and of course for those unlucky small minority % of people that are very sensitive to those, or to certain, being the genus Avicularia, genus Nhandu etc no matters, hairs.

But in general those hairs are harmless for us, they are a menace only for T's predators. I have a female M.robustum, among others, and according to a lot of people, those hairs are pretty badass. Everytime I have to do maintenance in her enclosure of course I end with hairs in my fingers, sometimes hand. Reason is, she leaves those hairs as a sort of invisible "perimeter defense" for take out predators.

Sure, I could use gloves, but seriously, a bit of red & itchy never killed no one. We are talking about T's hairs not WWI sulfur mustard :)
 
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