Handling hotter species.

[H. laoticus]

Not good to have an "all or nothing" mentality. Allergic reactions can occur, yes, but when you add a hot species to that, you get potential allergic reaction + medically significant venom.
I don't handle any of my scorpions, by the way. I just like to leave them alone.

 

[AzJohn]

With my size, it would require an allergic reaction to get me to the doctor from any spider bite or scorpion sting. And the treatment for anaphylaxis is the same regardless of the cause. You do realize that most stings of even the hottest scorpions go untreated and do not cause death. I would bet you dollars to donuts that more people are killed by their non venomous pet snakes than those that are stung by scorpions each year.

I feel you are totally underestimating your scorpions. That it is a very dangerous thing to do. I am fully aware of the numbers dealing with scorpions stings are you? People die every year around the world do to scorpion stings. That's a fact. I know not all of them have access to modern medicne. That does give you a better chance of living. However, if a tityus or andro wants you dead you are in trouble no matter what your size. Your insistance that a scorpion will cause symptoms similar to anaphylaxia is still a problem. A scorpion sting is much different than a bee sting.

Please, if you are going to handle hot scorpion educate yourself fully. I'm not saying you are wrong about everything, but the chances of you either dieing or needing expensive medical care are very real. Antivenom for exotic scorpions is very hard to find in the US and will probably be hours away at best. It wont help if your doctor thinks he's treating a bad wasp sting.


John

 

[paul fleming]

Australia is the king country of things that can kill you......quick !
What do you think is the biggest human killing insect/snake/animal on that continent ?
The european honey bee no less.
They have taipan,brown and tiger snakes.......funnel webs and widows and the biggest meanest crocs on earth.
It is time for a bit of perspective here me thinks.
Paul
ps....I have handled one or two hots in my time and they normally kill the very young or the very old (perspective again with a healthy adult) in countries with no medical care at all.

 

[AzJohn]

Australia is the king country of things that can kill you......quick !
What do you think is the biggest human killing insect/snake/animal on that continent ?
The european honey bee no less.
They have taipan,brown and tiger snakes.......funnel webs and widows and the biggest meanest crocs on earth.
It is time for a bit of perspective here me thinks.
Paul
ps....I have handled one or two hots in my time and they normally kill the very young or the very old (perspective again with a healthy adult) in countries with no medical care at all.

You are right. :clap: That's why we avoid taipan, tiger snakes, cobras, ect. Playing with hots came kill you. Every time you handle hot scorpions you are putting your life at risk. How can you argue that point. I don't really care if you get stung. I don't know you from Adam. What I have a problem with is when you go out of your way to down play the danger. I don't understand that at all. There a lot of people in this forum. Not every one has a ton of common since. Some people will read your post and think that it's not that dangerous to handle hot scorpions. To me, it is horribly irresponcible.


John

 

[Aschamne]

You are right. :clap: That's why we avoid taipan, tiger snakes, cobras, ect. Playing with hots came kill you. Every time you handle hot scorpions you are putting your life at risk. How can you argue that point. I don't really care if you get stung. I don't know you from Adam. What I have a problem with is when you go out of your way to down play the danger. I don't understand that at all. There a lot of people in this forum. Not every one has a ton of common since. Some people will read your post and think that it's not that dangerous to handle hot scorpions. To me, it is horribly irresponcible.


John

First of all I have said in other post that I do not recommend handling, but for me it is not a conscious choice(part of me has to do it). Also while most people would avoid those snakes, I would handle them as well if I where given the opportunity. I also never said that scorpions are not dangerous, I just stated that I don't feel that the threat level would be that severe for someone my size. Remember that toxicity is relevant to the size of the victim(someone that is about 100 lbs would be way worse off than me at 285 providing neither of us were allergic). So in conclusion as I have said before the people that are just handling to show off should not be doing it, but those that understand and accept the risk involve while still not a good idea should at least be able to without having to hear others crying about it.

Art

BTW This thread almost had me wanting to take out my P. transvaalicus and post pics of me handling it, just to irk those that are crying about it. But, I decided that would be stooping to a childish level and would not help my argument in any way.

 

[AzJohn]

First of all I have said in other post that I do not recommend handling, but for me it is not a conscious choice(part of me has to do it). Also while most people would avoid those snakes, I would handle them as well if I where given the opportunity. I also never said that scorpions are not dangerous, I just stated that I don't feel that the threat level would be that severe for someone my size. Remember that toxicity is relevant to the size of the victim(someone that is about 100 lbs would be way worse off than me at 285 providing neither of us were allergic). So in conclusion as I have said before the people that are just handling to show off should not be doing it, but those that understand and accept the risk involve while still not a good idea should at least be able to without having to hear others crying about it.

Art

BTW This thread almost had me wanting to take out my P. transvaalicus and post pics of me handling it, just to irk those that are crying about it. But, I decided that would be stooping to a childish level and would not help my argument in any way.

Hello Art,

I really don't care what you do with your scorpions. I don't know who you are. As mentioned earlier what bothers me is when people down play the risk and post those views on the internet, where other people, who lack common since, figure that if it's okay for him than it's okay for me. You haven’t admitted that some scorpions can kill you, even at 285. You are still clinging to the I'm real big it can't hurt me rationalization. To me, that is a lack of respect for your scorpions. At least come out and say I know they can kill me but....then don't tell us why you think you are safe. It's a false since of security.

One last thing, no one is crying. I am trying to represent the hobby as on of resonable, responsible adults. We don't need a 12 year old kid reading these post and saying if Art does it then it's okay for me. I know some people will handle hots. I can't do any thing about that. To me handling hots should be like wearing your wife’s underwear. You do it in the privacy of your own home and don't tell the neighbors.

John

 

[sharpfang]

Playing w/ Fire, I mean Venom

Handling anything that can possibly kill you is stupid, it's that simple.

Hard 4 any1 2 Disagree w/ that......I unpacked some Az. Bark Scorps the other day....one got me *lightly*, I was Not worried, but I coulda *handled* situation differently....They are ALL in proper *hands* of Advanced Hobbyist now. He said it is a real bummer to get stung by one = for like 1-3 days....

I dbl. contained the specimens....and will Not bring such creatures in again.

I parted w/ ALL scorps this week but Emps - Lesson learned - Jason

 

[campj]

To me handling hots should be like wearing your wife’s underwear. You do it in the privacy of your own home and don't tell the neighbors.

John

You wear your wife's underwear?



Seriously though, you'll get stung eventually Art and then we'll see who's crying. Haven't you seen that RobC video where he got bit by the P. ornata? He's a big guy and it looked like he was in as much pain as anyone else would be.

 

[Aschamne]

You wear your wife's underwear?



Seriously though, you'll get stung eventually Art and then we'll see who's crying. Haven't you seen that RobC video where he got bit by the P. ornata? He's a big guy and it looked like he was in as much pain as anyone else would be.

Well my wife got tagged by our ornata the same day, and I can tell you that she did not dramatize the situation like Rob did. I'm not saying that she was not in pain, nor that she didn't suffer from cramps for 2 to 3 weeks from the bite, just that she handled it a lot better than he did.

Handling anything that can possibly kill you is stupid, it's that simple.

So you are saying that people should not handle dogs, cats, snakes over 5', or even the larger farm animals. The fact of the matter is that most animals can kill us, but that does not stop us from owning or handling them.

Art

 

[snappleWhiteTea]

Does this topic really need argument? i mean handling any scorpion puts the handler at risk of being stung.

 

[paul fleming]

I have handled and posted pics here of me handling Lq,Aa,Pt and an amoureuxi as well as M.gigas and a red back and I am still here ;P
I won't go into the pokies and baboons I have done but you get the message.
There is only one left to do......hahni and after that....it is finished.
Just so happens,I keep those too.

 

[Aschamne]

Does this topic really need argument? i mean handling any scorpion puts the handler at risk of being stung.

That is true, but petting a cat puts you at risk of being scratched. And the bacteria on cat's claws can be lethal, but that does not stop people from petting their cats. I knew people when I was growing up that were killed by domestic pigs and cattle. And look Christopher Reeve was paralyzed by falling off of a horse, maybe people should not ride horses.

I hate to tell you all this, but every single one of you will die. The only thing that matters is did you actually live or just cower in fear until death comes for you anyway. I can say that I have lived and will continue to do so, not just because I handle hots. I will eventually take a vacation to scuba with sharks. I have swam in a pond that had several water moccasins in it, though I will admit that was on a dare. I have eaten things that most westerners would not and I am always willing to try new things.

Art

 

[saxman146]

That is true, but petting a cat puts you at risk of being scratched. And the bacteria on cat's claws can be lethal, but that does not stop people from petting their cats. I knew people when I was growing up that were killed by domestic pigs and cattle. And look Christopher Reeve was paralyzed by falling off of a horse, maybe people should not ride horses. Art

Well, you all might as well give up on this one. When it is brought down to a statement of how dogs and cats are putting us at danger of being killed in the same way a hot scorpion handleing session will do, the battle is over. The people killed by pigs and cattle are making a living preparing someone's next meal. It is not the thrill session at one's own risk of life like your situation is.Horses by the most part are domesticated, I see what you are saying, but what you are doing is not RIDING the horse my friend. You are STANDING BEHIND THE HORSE AND KICKING HIS JUEVOS.

 

[AzJohn]

So you are saying that people should not handle dogs, cats, snakes over 5', or even the larger farm animals. The fact of the matter is that most animals can kill us, but that does not stop us from owning or handling them.

Art

Thanks for more example of why some animals aren't meant for some people. If a person's pitbull kills someone everyone says "what a moron, they shouldn't been been allowed to keep that dog". If you 12' snake kills your child while he was sleeping people ask "what kind of idiot lets this happen." If you are hospitalized from a bad scorpion sting, what are people going to say? The thing is that the only way people die from dogs bites or large snakes is if there is a serious problem with the captive care of these animals. People who can't keep them properly shouldn't try. The same can be said about farm animals. i live in avery rural area with lots of open range. I've been woken u to cows in my front yard. The 5 year old kids i teach know to stay away from cattle and strange horses.

The other thing is that a lot of these animals are facing legal restictions and bans in a lot of places, because of the worries you mentioned. I can't keep pitbulls or other similar dogs where I live. large snakes are facing banns across the country. I don't want to see inverts start to get banned.

john

 

[AzJohn]

I hate to tell you all this, but every single one of you will die. The only thing that matters is did you actually live or just cower in fear until death comes for you anyway. I can say that I have lived and will continue to do so, not just because I handle hots. I will eventually take a vacation to scuba with sharks. I have swam in a pond that had several water moccasins in it, though I will admit that was on a dare. I have eaten things that most westerners would not and I am always willing to try new things.

Art

Really, holding hots scorpions fulfills your life? You know you've lived once you held an LQ. Man, I guess I can't understand that.

That's pretty condescending of you isn't it. I'm very happy with my life. I love just about everything about it, great job, good friends, fun hobbies. I have few regrets. I don't hide under the bed all day. I get up and enjoy myself as much as I can. I’m not at all afraid of death. To me it's just another part of life, a life I've lived to the fullest so far. Holding deadly inverts has nothing to do with it. You might be different from me. Although I do want to swim with sharks some day.


John

 

[sharpfang]

{smirkin' during breakfast}

You wear your wife's underwear?

Oh this Made my Morning Jonathan! :razz: I thought I was the ONLY AB member that wore their Wife's Underwear {Cozy} - J

 

[Aschamne]

Really, holding hots scorpions fulfills your life? You know you've lived once you held an LQ. Man, I guess I can't understand that.

That's pretty condescending of you isn't it. I'm very happy with my life. I love just about everything about it, great job, good friends, fun hobbies. I have few regrets. I don't hide under the bed all day. I get up and enjoy myself as much as I can. I’m not at all afraid of death. To me it's just another part of life, a life I've lived to the fullest so far. Holding deadly inverts has nothing to do with it. You might be different from me. Although I do want to swim with sharks some day.


John

That is the thing its not about holding hot scorpions, its about doing what makes you happy. Even if I were to handle my hot scorpions everyday, I would still have a higher risk of dying at work. This is just do to the fact that I work in live 480V panels, and I can tell you that getting hit by 480 is both painful and exhilarating. While 480 can and does kill people I have been hit 3 times and still do my job without fear.

Also the reasons that large snakes are at risk of being banned is due to them being an invasive species in Florida. Even though the problem is as bad as they would like you to believe, it is the lobbying from the HSUS that has escalated it. If you feel the need to put blame on someone for putting a hobby at risk, at least put it on those that are causing it the HSUS, PETA, and the dumb individuals that decide that the pet is not right for them so they release it into the wild. They are not being banned because of the people who end up dying while trying to handle them.

Art

 

[Michiel]

Hmmm, the Volts (voltage) aren't dangerous, the Ampere's (current)are.....you say you work with 480 V, what is the Amp strenght?

 

[Aschamne]

Hmmm, the Volts (voltage) aren't dangerous, the Ampere's (current)are.....you say you work with 480 V, what is the Amp strenght?

More than enough to be lethal most are in the 30 - 50 amp range, but a couple are above 200 amps.

Art

 

[Nomadinexile]

In response to the large snakes, pit bulls, etc.

There are some efforts to regulate/ban these animals because of injury. But these are injuries to others, not the owners. I've yet to hear a sensational story about an owner getting attacked and killed by their pet. (I'm sure this has happened, and been in the news somewhere, but those aren't the big stories.) It's always, "pit bull kills neighbors kid" (although labs do this too sometimes), snake eats owners child, chimp eats friends face, etc...., It's the fact that the irresponsible owner allowed their animal to attack someone else through negligence, not an owner putting themselves at risk, that causes the exceptionality of the story. Yes, if you let your hot sting and kill your child, or it escapes and kills your neighbor (both highly unlikely), then we are going to have an issue. A sting to the owner, even causing death, would get some coverage, but not the same as a neighbors child. It's apples and oranges.

But again, neither I nor anyone here, is telling anyone else to hold their hots. But you shouldn't always condemn others for doing so, imo. Especially if they are adults that are aware of the consequences to themselves and others. Not a genius idea really. But neither is being a coal miner, but we all want our electricity. Neither is drinking booze, but lots of people do it, and you can get it in drive-throughs in many places. Neither is bungee jumping or rock climbing, but we don't ban that, or tell them they are ruining things for others. I know there's a difference with animals, but there are much more dangerous activities. I don't plan on holding mine, but I'm not going to tell other adults they are bad for doing so either.


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