H. Gigas pair enclosure, with water.

[Phases]

Ah, I knew you'd be here to contribute before too long!

..and as for playing God - hey man you're keeping T's in a box same as I. I've already explained where the communal impressions came from.

 

[viper69]

Ah, I knew you'd be here to contribute before too long!

..and as for playing God - hey man you're keeping T's in a box same as I. I've already explained where the communal impressions came from.

No you and I don't keep Ts the same way.

Your reductionist approach overlooks all the things you and I do differently. Please don't confuse my practices with yours, they aren't the same.

I do my research, I don't assume as you did, I don't put a species together in a communal when there's no documented evidence of them living that way in the wild.

@Venom1080 responses to you were to the point. While his delivery was not to your liking he provided reasonable and sound information.

Keeping a CBB animal is a far cry from playing God compared to tossing some in together in a communal format. They are not even close.

If someone wants sugar coated responses they should go to the candy store.

 

[viper69]

@miss moxie

Evidence of communal success-- is this natural behavior observed in the wild?

If it's not, then why experiment at all? What does keeping an animal in a communal prove other than a person threw some Ts together??

If a communal is successful all it means is someone has managed to generate artificially induced behavior. Where is the merit in that?

Right, I completely agree with you that OP's choice of specimens for this experiment was misguided. However, I do have to point out that it isn't known to have a 100% failure rate. If you google 'H. gigas communal', the first thread that comes up is from a 2009 arachnoboards thread which had examples of success in it. { Here } There is also a youtube video of someone keeping 10 similarly sized (as OP, about 2") H. gigas together with success. { Here } Most people say it's not worth the attempt but there is enough evidence of success to justify at least trying it.



No, I understood that they were likely sac-mates and you had a decent reason for thinking that. It's just that after a few moments of googling, people who had success seemed to agree that they should grow up right next to each other, not be separated and then re-introduced.

But it doesn't matter anymore. You tried it, you acknowledge that you could have done better, and you genuinely seem remorseful over being responsible for a T's death. I don't think you're acting arrogant or overly-defensive. All we can do is learn from our mistakes, right?

 

[Phases]

I already explained and defended my reasoning @viper69, you're not special enough for me to repeat myself. As for your little sugar coated jab - well, I suppose if people want jerk (edited.) responses you'd know where they should go then, too. I found out long ago what a piece of work you are, so feel free to hop off my thread and go pick on someone else.

..artificially induced behavior. Because we have cameras on all species out in the wild at all times to 'document' what they do. :eyeroll:

 

[viper69]

I already explained and defended my reasoning @viper69

..artificially induced behavior. Because we have cameras on all species out in the wild at all times to 'document' what they do. :eyeroll:

We don't, which is why I always question people who play God.

 

[miss moxie]

@miss moxie

Evidence of communal success-- is this natural behavior observed in the wild?

If it's not, then why experiment at all? What does keeping an animal in a communal prove other than a person threw some Ts together??

If a communal is successful all it means is someone has managed to generate artificially induced behavior. Where is the merit in that?

I was merely pointing out that a quick google search would find people had tried it with success before-- and I also pointed out that there were people talking about how it was an absolute disaster. I will admit that I didn't consider whether or not they did so in nature, it didn't even cross my mind. I do agree with you that if they don't do it in nature, then what is the point in doing it in the first place?

That said, in nature no one is dropping crickets from the sky for them to eat, the sky is for dropping water every so often (or more often depending on the locale/season/etc). Keeping anything in an enclosure is artificial vipe.

Anyway, I don't know why communals are such a big deal in the first place. To me it's more of an aesthetics thing. I can appreciate the way an enclosure would look with 6 pokies in it, for example. But I can just as easily appreciate an enclosure with 1 pokie in it. I think anytime a keeper decides to try it, whether it happens in nature or not, they're taking a risk and the consequences are on their head. Tarantulas aren't carbon copies, they can't all be expected to react the same way no matter how much research you do first.

 

[Phases]

My thoughts were if they are "truly communal" which THIS particular species was claimed to be, that meant in nature. So, my thinking was if that was what they do in nature, perhaps this little guy would prefer it done here. Clearly I read that wrong. Clearly I made the wrong choice while trying to do the right thing. It wasn't just for me to watch.

But seriously, all of us keeping tarantulas, trying what we try, doing what we do, it's ALL artificial. Every bit of it. And as stated, they are all different, all individuals, just like WE are.

It would be cool if I could make a decision that differs from others without them deciding to use that opportunity to act the way they apparently want to act toward people. Being polite while you try to help will get you a lot further in life. Or at least at lot further with me, and plenty of others. If the Ts truly are at what is at everyone's best interest, then I would suggest taking a different approach so that these people WANT to learn from you and apparent infinite knowledge on the subject, rather than want to find a different site to frequent. Surely that's not what is desired, seeings how I'm being told no other place is as correct in judgement as members here, right?

I mean, it's a crazy thought, and all... I know..

 

[Nightstalker47]

@miss moxie

Evidence of communal success-- is this natural behavior observed in the wild?

If it's not, then why experiment at all? What does keeping an animal in a communal prove other than a person threw some Ts together??

M.balfouri have never been observed living communally in the wild... yet they are the most widely accepted communal species out there.

Ironic...

Yes the OP could have done more research and ensured that his spiders were in fact siblings, are we going to go on all day about that?

 

[viper69]

I suggest you stop being a jerk (is that better for you?) and stop trying to make people want to walk the fine line of that TOS.

Got anything else you wanna "contribute"?

There's no need for name calling and such. I suggest you take a few moments and walk away from the keyboard.

I don't make anyone do anything. You are in complete control of what you type, and how you responded, not me.

 

[Phases]

Yes the OP could have done more research and ensured that his spiders were in fact siblings, are we going to go on all day about that?

Agreed, I really wish people would accept that I messed up in some areas, and will stand by my thought process in others, and just move on.

There's no need for name calling and such. I suggest you take a few moments and walk away from the keyboard.

I don't make anyone do anything. You are in complete control of what you type, and how you responded, not me.

Lol, okay buddy. You're a funny dude.

 

[viper69]

M.balfouri have never been observed living communally in the wild... yet they are the most widely accepted communal species out there.

Ironic...

Yes the OP could have done more research and ensured that his spiders were in fact siblings, are we going to go on all day about that?

Agreee on balfouri being successful.

Again we have no idea if the behavior is natural or captivity-induced. I don't do it.

 

[viper69]

Yes the OP could have done more research and ensured that his spiders were in fact siblings, are we going to go on all day about that?

I wouldn't have brought it up but the OP felt we kept Ts the same, and the OP and I don't. I fine clarity important as well as details.

 

[Anoplogaster]

Anyway, I don't know why communals are such a big deal in the first place. To me it's more of an aesthetics thing.

My thoughts exactly. I see the "communals" topic come on fairly frequently here, and I have yet to hear any convincing arguments that there is any benefit to the animals. The fact that most Ts respond so enthusiastically to ANY sort of movement or vibration, why would you want to put two or more "hair-trigger" animals in the same enclosure unless you are breeding them.

For aesthetics, I understand that human urge. We can also train tigers to jump through flaming hoops. How cool is that? People pay to see that. If we never tried it, we wouldn't know it works, either..... right? Now ask yourself, where's the benefit to be gained? For the animal? Just because it can survive the ordeal? No. The benefit is all for the selfish keeper.

OP: Ok, I'm also empathetic to your feelings on this thread. I know you feel victimized with all this negativity. I know you feel bad. I believe you.... honest, I do! And it really sucks to feel like you're getting singled out by a couple individuals who clearly disagreed with your experiment. But keep in mind what this forum is meant for: Information and advice.

Since we've known you, we have seen you do things against the advice you've been given. It's like you ask for advice, and decide not to take it. What's the point in that? You only do what you want, and you only ever listen to the people who already agree with you. This is why there are people who can't help but be frustrated with you. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who have experience talking with you are actively avoiding your threads now, just so they don't have to deal with the debating. I'm already going to regret posting here because of that.

As I've said before, you are completely free to do what you choose. It's all up to you. But when you post stuff on here, you are publicizing your decisions and the negative results of them. You are guaranteed to get flack for it. Keep that in mind before you post stuff.

 

[boina]

I already explained and defended my reasoning @viper69, you're not special enough for me to repeat myself. As for your little sugar coated jab - well, I suppose if people want jerk (edited.) responses you'd know where they should go then, too. I found out long ago what a piece of work you are, so feel free to hop off my thread and go pick on someone else.

..artificially induced behavior. Because we have cameras on all species out in the wild at all times to 'document' what they do. :eyeroll:

Wow, really, Phases? I had a run in with @viper69 before, but there's really no need to get rude like this. And it's not "your" tread. If people want to comment they can, even if you don't like it. Stop yelling at everyone who disagrees with you. This doesn't make you right, just rude. I think both @Venom1080 and @viper69 had very valid points whether you like it or not.

 

[miss moxie]

My thoughts exactly. I see the "communals" topic come on fairly frequently here, and I have yet to hear any convincing arguments that there is any benefit to the animals.

Precisely. When someone can give me evidence that it benefits the tarantulas somehow, then I'll be more than happy to listen. Until then it's about the keeper's wants or curiosities or what have you. It's not like they get lonely and need a pal to gossip with.

 

[Phases]

Since we've known you, we have seen you do things against the advice you've been given. It's like you ask for advice, and decide not to take it. What's the point in that? You only do what you want, and you only ever listen to the people who already agree with you. This is why there are people who can't help but be frustrated with you. I'm willing to bet that a lot of people who have experience talking with you are actively avoiding your threads now, just so they don't have to deal with the debating. I'm already going to regret posting here because of that.

Well, two things. Three.

1. Thanks for the pretty level reply.
2. I can think of exactly one case where I asked advice and went against it. That marks me on here permanently? Well that's a shame.
3. Those choosing to "debate" with me, if you could call it that - I'd be just fine with them avoiding as well. They are not debating in good spirit.

 

[Phases]

Wow, really, Phases? I had a run in with @viper69 before, but there's really no need to get rude like this. And it's not "your" tread. If people want to comment they can, even if you don't like it. Stop yelling at everyone who disagrees with you. This doesn't make you right, just rude. I think both @Venom1080 and @viper69 had very valid points whether you like it or not.

I'm not yelling at people who disagree with me boina, calm down. I'm getting defensive when people disagree with me in an outright rude manner. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing and giving post-event advice, it's how dern rude some of you can be. Which, triggers my responses - on my own thread. Yes, my - as in a discussion *I* started.

My goodness some of you are exhausting!

Edit: It's not their points. It's the delivery method. Which you know, I've already said before. *sigh*

 

[Nightstalker47]

Agreee on balfouri being successful.

Again we have no idea if the behavior is natural or captivity-induced. I don't do it.

Point is we shouldn't jump the gun because OP tried something different. Much like N.incei there have been both positive and negative reports of H.gigas communals.

I'm not going to go out of my way to say he screwed up when the results of his experiment clearly speak for themselves... it's like kicking a dead horse.

 

[Phases]

I wouldnt be opposed to "(Failed)" being put in the title (I edited into the OP) and all but the first page being soft deleted, then closing the thread.

The real silver lining here, if we could stop bickering, is this experiment could serve as future research findings for the next guy who googles it after reading what I did to give me the idea - and would give evidence against trying it.

I'd like this thread to serve a purpose, I do not want to fight with people and litter it up. All it is at this point is reaction after reaction anyway.

So I reported and asked it be closed. Failed to ask for the title edit and clean up but.. well see.

Anyway.. to those whom it applies, thanks for the kind words and understanding. I've got to move on from this thread, it's just crazy.

 

[advan]

MOD NOTE: Enough with the bickering and name calling. Many posts have been deleted and warnings will be handed out if it keeps up.

Now with that out of the way. Some species in this genus have been found living in tight net colonies. Some have even been found 40 feet up in trees. There have been successful communals but they always start with a single female with an eggsac. Get rid of the pool(pointless and takes up crucial burrowing space) >> give a single female a huge enclosure with a few feet of dirt >> pair her(make sure the male is the same species! or at least the same hobby hybrid) >> If you get a sac, let it hatch with her >> feed her and spiderlings until they grow up >> remove mature males when you notice them >> viola Hysterocrates communal.