H. Gigas pair enclosure, with water.

[Phases]

Thank you. Now I gotta face the camera :\

 

[Venom1080]

View attachment 246664

Welp, that was a short lived experiment :'(

After reading what was on the two sites I linked above, and knowing these came from the same seller (not who I bought from, who THEY got from), and their cost vs that of M. balfouri - seemed like a pretty solid opportunity before me. Sadly, I'm not even sure if the survivor was my original one or not. I would prefer that but who knows.

I discovered it last night after my second check in, and @Venom1080 was so very right. I checked on them, they were both there, then I blinked for a second while grabbing a flashlight. Literally I turned around, grabbed it, and turned back, and then all there was, was a leg. Rest of whatever or whoever was left, was down in the burrow. I had a pretty sleepless night. The picture above was from this morning, a few minutes ago.

So, a couple post experiment considerations and observations:

1. Well, next time I will be sure to use spiderlings who are still together, from the sack, and never separate. Or, buy as a group sold meant to be communal by the seller.

2. I don't know which is the survivor but to be honest I'm just.. so happy.. that there IS a survivor. This could have easy resulted in two dead or dying Ts. I worried about that all night. This one left measures 2" which is what I measured my original at, and the second seemed smaller. But, I'm just not sure.

3. I now need to determine if this enclosure is too big for the one. He seems okay, but, we see how far my judgement got me. He did put part of the dead T in the water, and has expanded the webbing at his entrance. He's working on that a tiny bit now as we speak. He's still eating part. Part is, I assume, still in the burrow. Which is at least 3" down, maybe 4 or more. Originally, he was in something about 4x less dirt volume, with no water.

Thoughts?

4. Well. I guess I can name him. Hannibal? Lecter? Cain? That seems mighty fitting. "Cain, the firstborn, tilled the soil, and his brother Abel was a shepherd. The brothers made sacrifices to God, each of his own produce, but God favored Abel's sacrifice instead of that of Cain. Cain murdered Abel. God punished Cain to a life of wandering, but set a mark on him so that no man would kill him."

I'm not 100% but I THINK it was the one at the bottom that .. tilled the soil... and ate the other. Who as far as I know was a sibling. He's now doomed to a life of solitude and wandering. I'm not going to put a second one in there, so no other will kill him. But he shall be alone, forever, now.

Heh. It *does* fit.

Or maybe some fictional character who absorbs the powers of others he kills. Is there such a thing? So he can be sorta, a super tarantula.

... :'(

5. Well guys. I'm bummed. Humbled. Embarrassed. Depressed. I feel like I let my lil guy down. I don't even know how best to describe it but I was very excited about the possibilities with this. At least one is still alive. I was afraid if it didn't work out the survivor would be injured and I would have had to decide how to handle it, which would have really, REALLY upset me. I worried all night about that, so I was relieved enough this morning when seeing the one alive and well and .. at work.. to feel well enough to make this super, super depressing post that I dreaded all night, and take whatever beating is coming my way.

To use a phrase I hate, it is what it is.

Edit: After reviewing pictures and looking at this guy now, and remembering what I saw last night - I am fairly sure the survivor is the smaller, non-original one. And it was the bigger, original, who was on top of the two, mostly at the mouth of the burrow whilst still alive.

This site is here to help you. Use the knowledge of all the keepers here to your advantage. If nearly the entire community is against a certain idea, you can be pretty sure it's just a bad idea.

You let your animals down, try not to do so again.

 

[Phases]

This site is here to help you. Use the knowledge of all the keepers here to your advantage. If nearly the entire community is against a certain idea, you can be pretty sure it's just a bad idea.

You let your animals down, try not to do so again.

Was nearly the entire community against the idea? I missed that part amongst the likes and conversation.

I'm aware this place is here to help, why do you think I'm here?

Read what I said about the reasoning behind it.

 

[korg]

Hysterocrates is one of my favorite genera, so sad to see this report. Though H. gigas, laticeps, etc from the same sac definitely can tolerate each other in "communal" conditions while small (which leads some people to label them a "communal" species) these sorts of experiments almost always fall apart as the spiders grow larger. If the prospect of potential losses stresses you out I'd recommend sticking with keeping your H. gigas in separate enclosures regardless of their origins. Their aquatic behavior, obsessive digging/tunneling, and quick growth make them excellent and really interesting spiders to keep regardless, in my opinion! Keep your survivor safe.

 

[Phases]

I did do proper research. I guess you want me to do more and more and more until I either come to your conclusion or abandon the idea due to lack of information - got it. This site is more than just you, Venom - and you didn't have a thing to say about it till now.

 

[Phases]

Hysterocrates is one of my favorite genera, so sad to see this report. Though H. gigas, laticeps, etc from the same sac definitely can tolerate each other in "communal" conditions while small (which leads some people to label them a "communal" species) these sorts of experiments almost always fall apart as the spiders grow larger. If the prospect of potential losses stresses you out I'd recommend sticking with keeping your H. gigas in separate enclosures regardless of their origins. Their aquatic behavior, obsessive digging/tunneling, and quick growth make them excellent and really interesting spiders to keep regardless, in my opinion! Keep your survivor safe.

Awesome! Thank you! Is this one yours? Looks slightly different than mine, maybe bigger? Or maybe I just need a super close up shot.

Thank you again, I want this thread back on track. I will not be endangering him again, I think he's awesome. He is already digging his tunnel far enough for me to feel bad downsizing him. Does yours swim?

I only wish now I'd kept the second one, separately, and just had the two to observe. Maybe my shop will get another in..

 

[Jones0911]

You did your research and things happen you've learned from this.

Don't beat yourself over it too long....

When this one grows up, find a mate and hopefully get an egg sac and enjoy life!

 

[Venom1080]

I did do proper research. I guess you want me to do more and more and more until I either come to your conclusion or abandon the idea due to lack of information - got it. This site is more than just you, Venom.

Well, evidently not.
Blah blah blah, I'm the bad guy. I give advice. Do what you want with it.

 

[Phases]

You did your research and things happen you've learned from this.

Don't beat yourself over it too long....

When this one grows up, find a mate and hopefully get an egg sac and enjoy life!

That'd be nice! I'd love to try the eggsac experience! Have you?

 

[korg]

Awesome! Thank you! Is this one yours? Looks slightly different than mine, maybe bigger? Or maybe I just need a super close up shot.

Thank you again, I want this thread back on track. I will not be endangering him again, I think he's awesome. He is already digging his tunnel far enough for me to feel bad downsizing him. Does yours swim?

I only wish now I'd kept the second one, separately, and just had the two to observe. Maybe my shop will get another in..

It could be a bit bigger. Color can also vary quite significantly based on proximity to molt/premolt with these species, so that could also be a factor. I'm sure you'll definitely notice that immediately when yours molts (along with a big size increase)! Mine have unfortunately never had an opportunity to swim, as I pretty much keep my gigas and laticeps in traditional fossorial enclosures.

 

[Jones0911]

That'd be nice! I'd love to try the eggsac experience! Have you?

Yea earlier this year I had a
tapinauchineus egg sac sold the babies after they hatched on their own..going to try soon with my T. Strimi pair after they're fully mature.


These two haven't eaten in a while, I have 50 adult dubia roaches on the way, so hopefully a few of those will at least push these two into another molt...




I also have a few Pterinochilus murinus slings I'll mate if they end up being the proper genders.

And Wednesday I'm going to buy some Pterinochilus sp. "Arusha" (Tanzania) .

I love the Pterinochilus genus they always eat and grow fast I'm still looking for P Chordatus & P Lugardi slings!

 

[Nightstalker47]

There hasn't been much recent data on H.gigas communals, so this is an informative experiment that we can all learn something from. At one point I too had read about this species being communal, I was curious and even pondered setting one up myself.

I never ended up doing it but I'm glad you posted the results and didn't shy away from sharing everything in its entirety. At the end of the day we can all do with our spiders as we please, I'm not going to put you down for trying.

@Phases Thanks for staying true to the purpose of this thread, even though things didn't go the way you would have liked them to.

 

[JoshDM020]

Or maybe some fictional character who absorbs the powers of others he kills.

Made me instantly think of Highlander.

 

[Phases]

Thanks a lot guys. I'm monitoring Cain pretty closely, he seems content but I'll need to pop in at night to see if he's exploring around much. I have noticed a couple extra inch or so holes here or there, like he's digging around a little, but not doing much else. I marked his feeding score for that day in red, and frown as I look at him, but also slightly smirk and shake my head. Damn nature, you scary!

I'm going to give him time to settle in, then determine if he's doing much AT ALL outside that hole. May move him back to the small enclosure if this proves too much until he's a bit bigger.

 

[Ellenantula]

Yeah, in theory I don't know I believe any Ts are truly communal. But I also think I've heard of H giga kept communally -- seems like someone here posted a vid once with 4 -- and it was cute to watch them in the water. In fact, I only remember this species because of the swimming...

Anyway, sorry you lost one. Expensive meal.

 

[miss moxie]

If you find something you'd like to try but don't see anyone with a working one, don't do it.

Well, think about it. If no one tried new things there would never be advancement. What if no one had ever wanted to try breeding tarantulas, so that they could offer them to the public? If no one asks 'what if...' or acts on their curiosity, how would we ever learn? How would we ever get ahead? Tarantula communals are always a crapshoot-- heck, even introducing a male and female for breeding purposes isn't foolproof. That's just how tarantulas are. If you google 'H. gigas communal' you will see mixed results, people who advise against it, people who had high success rates, and some who had success at first and then failed. It's not as if it is made out to be an impossible task and OP did it regardless.

That being said, OP, the general consensus for success is using sac-mates that have never been separated for the highest success rate. Introducing two 2" specimens that were living alone for quite a long time (if I'm understanding what you wrote correctly) wasn't the most well-informed choice. I am sorry it didn't work out for you, however.

 

[Venom1080]

Well, think about it. If no one tried new things there would never be advancement. What if no one had ever wanted to try breeding tarantulas, so that they could offer them to the public? If no one asks 'what if...' or acts on their curiosity, how would we ever learn? How would we ever get ahead? Tarantula communals are always a crapshoot-- heck, even introducing a male and female for breeding purposes isn't foolproof. That's just how tarantulas are. If you google 'H. gigas communal' you will see mixed results, people who advise against it, people who had high success rates, and some who had success at first and then failed. It's not as if it is made out to be an impossible task and OP did it regardless.

That being said, OP, the general consensus for success is using sac-mates that have never been separated for the highest success rate. Introducing two 2" specimens that were living alone for quite a long time (if I'm understanding what you wrote correctly) wasn't the most well-informed choice. I am sorry it didn't work out for you, however.

I know what you mean. I think it's good to try new things. But this is known not to work. If he made a thread, he would have found out.
Not to mention he tried it with 2 half grown unrelated spiders. That goes against pretty much everything I know about communals.

 

[Phases]

As stated, I think maybe more than once, these were bought from the same seller, who got them together from their source. As a shop, I assume their source to be a breeder. These were 2 or under inches in size. It wasn't an unreasonable assumption.

Yes. I could have done better. Most people usually could have in most situations.

Further, maybe NOW it's known to not work. I linked you to the wealth of information I found on the subject here on AB.

So a new thread would have what.. got several ppl open to the idea and venom1080 against it? Look man, I appreciate your experience and knowledge. It's your delivery that turns me off.

Ugh. I need to resist the urge to replying to this stuff. It's ruining the thread which might actually hold some value in the future if we don't litter it with useless and endless bickering. So how about we stop with the jabs, maybe?

 

[miss moxie]

I know what you mean. I think it's good to try new things. But this is known not to work. If he made a thread, he would have found out.
Not to mention he tried it with 2 half grown unrelated spiders. That goes against pretty much everything I know about communals.

Right, I completely agree with you that OP's choice of specimens for this experiment was misguided. However, I do have to point out that it isn't known to have a 100% failure rate. If you google 'H. gigas communal', the first thread that comes up is from a 2009 arachnoboards thread which had examples of success in it. { Here } There is also a youtube video of someone keeping 10 similarly sized (as OP, about 2") H. gigas together with success. { Here } Most people say it's not worth the attempt but there is enough evidence of success to justify at least trying it.

As stated, I think maybe more than once, these were bought from the same seller, who got them together from their source. As a shop, I assume their source to be a breeder. These were 2 or under inches in size. It wasn't an unreasonable assumption.

Yes. I could have done better. Most people usually could have in most situations.

No, I understood that they were likely sac-mates and you had a decent reason for thinking that. It's just that after a few moments of googling, people who had success seemed to agree that they should grow up right next to each other, not be separated and then re-introduced.

But it doesn't matter anymore. You tried it, you acknowledge that you could have done better, and you genuinely seem remorseful over being responsible for a T's death. I don't think you're acting arrogant or overly-defensive. All we can do is learn from our mistakes, right?

 

[viper69]

I feel like I let my lil guy down

You did.

I didn't see anyone anywhere tell me it was a bad idea besides your snarky reply

Well, that's because I hadn't seen this thread yet. What @Venom1080 is good info. I've seen him around enough to know he does his research among other reasons.

What I don't understand is why people experiment with communal Ts, when there's no documented evidence that they are communal to begin with except for 2 species that come to mind.

Playing God should be left to Gods, not mere mortals