General questions and help identifying my scorpions please.

[Refried]

Hey guys, new to the forums. I have a few questions/concerns with the scorpions I have and regarding enclosure advice as well.

First, a friend of mine purchased scorpions from a petsmart or somewhere similar and they were advertised as emperor but he believes they were Asian Forest Scorpions. The female gave birth to a brood and I received two of the babies, I was hoping someone would be able to clarify with more accuracy for me please. (I will place all of the photos at the end of the post.)

They are probably close to 10-12 months old and I've had them for about 8 months. The first enclosure was the one with the lamp resting on the lid, during this time the scorpions seemed to wander around a bit more, crawling upside down and all over the half logs, in addition to also hanging out under the water dish most of the time. Ever since I moved them out of this enclosure they just hang out in their burrows or under the water dish, which I've read is normal but I don't know if maybe its because its too hot/cold/humid/etc.. I keep the warm side at about 74-80 degrees Fahrenheit and the cool side about 72-76 degrees Fahrenheit, and humidity between 70-90%. Please help me if this is incorrect. I used an IR bulb for the most part until a couple of weeks ago because I was getting the feeling that the light was bothering them (despite the fact that they supposedly cannot see IR as much/at all), so I just switched to a ceramic heat emitter.

After the first enclosure I started doing "false bottom" set ups, but I must be doing something terribly wrong because its not serving its purpose at all. The water doesn't evaporate or help the humidity at all so I constantly have to keep spraying down the enclosure which pisses the scorpions off. That said, I was hoping someone could either point out what I was doing wrong with the false bottom to make it more effective, or just some general pointers on how to maintain desired humidity and maybe I should just give up on the false bottom set up.

I've been getting mold on any logs that I buy from the pet stores, so I was hoping for some advice on decorations that the scorpions will like and also proper preparations for them to avoid mold and other potential dangers (I've heard of people scrubbing the bark off of wood and baking the wood in the oven or something first?).

I've been getting the feeling that the scorpions are unhappy with any set up I provide because I hardly ever see them leave their burrows, they never hunt their food, I have to kill the crickets and put them by the entrances of their burrows or they just don't end up eating if I don't do this, and one of them does this weird thing every once in a blue moon where he crawls up the corners of the glass and just stands there vertically for a while. Is he trying to reach towards the heat? Obviously he could be just curious but idk I feel that there is more to it. Do they not hunt or walk around the enclosure because its unsuitable/undesirable for them?

I apologize for the length of this post but I'm pretty desperate for advice so please be brutal if I'm doing things incorrectly.

 

[JoshBC]

Hey there. Wow that's a lot, but I'll share my Emperor experience with you and hopefully it will be some help. I got my Pandinus Cavimanus in January of this year, and she is doing very well. I began researching and building her terrarium in October of 2015 though. Yes I had an empty terrarium for 3 months lol. But I wanted to make sure it was perfect, and I spent 6 weeks waiting for her to arrive.

Initially I struggled to acquire the desired temperature and humidity. A friend at work, who has aquariums, told me I would need to cover a large portion of the terrarium to keep humidity in. Her terrarium is 30"×12"×12" btw. So I got a piece of glass cut at a local autoglass store (5mm thick) that would cover about 70% of the hot side. I immediately saw a massive increase in humidity.

As for temperature, again I struggled. After A LOT of trial and error I was able to dial it in with two large heat pads. One on the end, the other on the back, basically beside the end pad. I do not use lights of any kind because I read many times that emps don't like it. I use IR for my desert scorps and they seem to love it.

I encountered the same problems with mold as you had mentioned. Anything organic (log hides) I put in would start to mold in a few days. After talking to my friend at work again he said this was bound to happen without significant airflow. He recommended I use stone/composite hides. So I did, and problem solved.

I don't know anything about false bottoms. So regrettably I can't offer you any advice there. I use 5 inches of coconut fibre, soaked in warm water, then squeezed out. Layed in as loose and fluffy as I possibly can. I then add spagnum moss around the surface. Again, soaked in warm water, then squeezed out until it's just damp.

Upon arrival Scorpina dug a hole near one of the tank pads, turned around, and sat there with her pincers slightly open. I took this to mean she was hoping to catch some food. I gave her a large cricket, she devoured it immediately. For the next 2 weeks she basically ate anything I put in front of her. 10+ crickets, 3 superworms, 1 mealworm, and a partridge in a pear tree. She then started refusing food. I do not leave live feeders in her terrarium. If she doesn't eat it within 1 minute, or literally smacks it away, I remove the feeded and try again in a couple days.

She took a 3 month break from eating, and only started eating again about a week ago. She's eaten 3 large crickets in the past 4-5 days. I know when she's hungry because she sits at the entrance of her primary burrow, with her pincers slightly open, just waiting. As she did when I first got her. She's a fully grown female btw.

She usually comes out at night and mobs around, digs holes, and adds to her network of underground tunnels that are all connected. Fascinating to watch really. I mist every 2 days, and on the non-misting days I turn her humidifier on for 20-30 minutes on low. She seems to really enjoy that, as on hot days she'll come out and sit directly under the humidifiers hose that sprays into her home.

I use an exoterra clip-on hygrometer, and keep humidity around 75%. I use an Accutemp digital thermometer probe to check temperature. I place it in her terrarium, at ground level, to see whats going on.

I have seen Scorpina do what your scorpion is doing, in photo 8 I believe it was, twice. Climbing up the glass. Both times concerned me and caused me to break out the thermometer. Both times something was wrong.

The first time was when the outside temperature began to warm up. Remember I set up my terrarium in the winter. She was climbing up the glass on the cold side. After probing I found temps had dramatically increased and immediately unplugged one of the heat pads. After 10 minutes she returned to her burrow.

The second time will take a little explaining. I bought a powerbar timer designed for aquariums at a local pet store. With outside temperatures consistently hotter (we had an unusually warm end of April/start of May here in BC) I had programmed her 1 heat pad to only come on from 6pm till 11am the next day. Avoiding coming on during the heat of the day. I come home from work at 5:15pm and here she is desperately climbing the glass on the cold side. So I bust out the probe, and sure enough ground temp is 20 degrees Celsius. Yet our air temp inside our home is 21.5 degrees Celsius. I take her heat pad off the timer and simply plug it in, and sure enough 10 minutes later shes back in her burrow.

Sorry for the long reply, but I figured if you're concerned enough to expain in such depth your current situation, then you wouldn't mind the reading. I hope I've been any kind of help. Please feel free to ask me any question you may have, and if I can, I'll answer it. If I can't, hopefully one of the people on here who know infinitely more about these creatures will help. I've only been keeping scorpions for about a year now, and have MUCH still to learn. Coming on this site has been a tremendous help though.

 

[JoshBC]

Some pics of Scorpina and her home.

 

[Refried]

Hey Josh, thanks for taking the time to share your experience and for answering my questions where you could, I really appreciate it. Congrats with Scorpina btw she looks real happy, and I really dig your setup. What is that background stuff you put on the glass? I'd like to get something like that for my guys: Ebb and Flow.

Yeah I got Plexiglas and drilled some holes in the top for better humidity, sometimes I worry about airflow but I think they get enough.
I do have heating pads but I just didnt like them very much because I get worried that they're inefficient or about the danger of them burrowing near the heat when they're trying to cool off. But it seems to work for you so I might give it another shot, cus I can't tell if they enjoy the ceramic heat emitter.

I'm definitely going to take your advice on the stone/composite hides, I think that's a great idea, thanks. You briefly mentioned something about a humidifier, what is this, how do you use it and where do you buy one? Lol

Okay, given your experience with the wall climbing, I think it is most definitely a temperature problem then because it just started getting real hot here in New Jersey so I'll have to mess with that and see if it works out as it did for you.

Again thanks for the reply and for sharing your experience, some seriously helpful stuff there, much appreciated.

 

[darkness975]

@Refried You don't really need a humidifier. @JoshBC 's set up is impressive and I think it looks great, but you do not need something that big to make your scorpions happy. I doubt anyone will be able to tell you what you have from the pictures you provided because they are on the blurry side but given the CITIES ban on P. imperator I am going to assume they are Heterometrus.

In @JoshBC 's case there was something wrong and it is a good idea to check it out if you see this, but I just want to play devil's advocate here for a minute and say that a lot of my scorpions will do the "wall dance" once in a while as well even though their enclosures are fine (I usually check out of habit to make sure they are okay though).

Also, they appear to be in extremely heavy premolt given how they look like sausages in some of those pictures. They will increase in size like that until they pop.

Is that a sponge in the water dish? Get rid of it ASAP. All that will do is attract bacteria and mold. They can drink normal clean water from a dish.

Give this a read, it is about P. imperator but the two are very similar in terms of their care: http://arachnoboards.com/threads/basic-emperor-scorpion-p-imperator-care.11336/

 

[Refried]

Darkness975, those pictures are terrible lol idk why I thought anyone would be able to tell from those but it was all I had at the moment. And yeah they just molted a couple days after those pictures actually. How long ago was that ban put in place though? Because my friend had the parents for some amount of years before they finally mated.

Should have thought about that with the sponges, I'll get rid of those immediately, and I'll definitely be reading that care sheet.
Thanks for the input and advice!

 

[darkness975]

@Refried It is possible they could be true P. imperator, especially if the parents have been owned for a few years. At smaller sizes Pandinus and Heterometrus look very similar and often it is hard to tell the difference even for people who have been in the hobby for a while.

Based on the shape of the chela (claw) in the "wall dancing" pic, though, my gut instinct is leaning towards you having Heterometrus.

Also, @Refried I love the names you picked. "Ebb and Flow" is such a poetic phrase I use it a lot in my writing.

 

[Refried]

That's what I was thinking too, they're lengthier less chunky chela would indicate Heterometrus. I'll try and get some better photos tomorrow but yeah it might still be difficult until they get older.

And thanks, that's funny you mention that about "Ebb and Flow" because I got it from reading Phaedo by Plato lol.. It seemed so fitting because the one wanders about the tank every once in a while and the other comes out very rarely, only to ebb away again into his hide.

While I still have your attention, could I get your opinion/thoughts on the favorable and unfavorable qualities of heating mats vs IR heat lamps/ceramic heat emitters?
I have all of them, I'm just having trouble figuring out which they prefer most.

 

[JoshBC]

Got that static terrarium cling at a local pet store, Petsmart I believe. Cut it to size, applied it with my debt card. The humidifier I bought at Mr. Pets for around 75 bucks. I believe it's made by Zoo Med but I've long since thrown out the box.

As for heat pads being inefficient. My biggest ones use only 16 watts. Compared to what the other items in our home use, it's a drop in swimming pool. My 2 IR lights for my other terrariums use 150 watts (combined) for 7 hours, then kick off and it's back to side mounted heat pads that use 24 watts (combined).

I've only ever heard of scorps injuring/killing themselves when heat pads are bottom mounted. I only side mount my heat pads. My scorpion has tunnels that run to and from the heat pads. I imagine that depending on how warm she is, she simply moves closer or farther away from the pad.

@darkness975 is right. My terrarium is overkill. Truthfully I thought she was going to be bigger. But I'm not disappointed at all. She seems to really enjoy all the space to mob around, climb, and dig her tunnels.

 

[JoshBC]

@Refried

 

[darkness975]

Got that static terrarium cling at a local pet store, Petsmart I believe. Cut it to size, applied it with my debt card. The humidifier I bought at Mr. Pets for around 75 bucks. I believe it's made by Zoo Med but I've long since thrown out the box.

As for heat pads being inefficient. My biggest ones use only 16 watts. Compared to what the other items in our home use, it's a drop in swimming pool. My 2 IR lights for my other terrariums use 150 watts (combined) for 7 hours, then kick off and it's back to side mounted heat pads that use 24 watts (combined).

I've only ever heard of scorps injuring/killing themselves when heat pads are bottom mounted. I only side mount my heat pads. My scorpion has tunnels that run to and from the heat pads. I imagine that depending on how warm she is, she simply moves closer or farther away from the pad.

@darkness975 is right. My terrarium is overkill. Truthfully I thought she was going to be bigger. But I'm not disappointed at all. She seems to really enjoy all the space to mob around, climb, and dig her tunnels.

Debt card, eh? Seems appropriate!!!

I have that same static cling stuff, but the desert version. It's pretty good and surprisingly sticky. It did not seem that way when I was applying it.

 

[Smokehound714]

Burrowing is normal behavior. Both pandinus and heterometrus tend to be obligate burrowers.

 

[Sasori Alakdan]

Hey there. Wow that's a lot, but I'll share my Emperor experience with you and hopefully it will be some help. I got my Pandinus Cavimanus in January of this year, and she is doing very well. I began researching and building her terrarium in October of 2015 though. Yes I had an empty terrarium for 3 months lol. But I wanted to make sure it was perfect, and I spent 6 weeks waiting for her to arrive.

Initially I struggled to acquire the desired temperature and humidity. A friend at work, who has aquariums, told me I would need to cover a large portion of the terrarium to keep humidity in. Her terrarium is 30"×12"×12" btw. So I got a piece of glass cut at a local autoglass store (5mm thick) that would cover about 70% of the hot side. I immediately saw a massive increase in humidity.

As for temperature, again I struggled. After A LOT of trial and error I was able to dial it in with two large heat pads. One on the end, the other on the back, basically beside the end pad. I do not use lights of any kind because I read many times that emps don't like it. I use IR for my desert scorps and they seem to love it.

I encountered the same problems with mold as you had mentioned. Anything organic (log hides) I put in would start to mold in a few days. After talking to my friend at work again he said this was bound to happen without significant airflow. He recommended I use stone/composite hides. So I did, and problem solved.

I don't know anything about false bottoms. So regrettably I can't offer you any advice there. I use 5 inches of coconut fibre, soaked in warm water, then squeezed out. Layed in as loose and fluffy as I possibly can. I then add spagnum moss around the surface. Again, soaked in warm water, then squeezed out until it's just damp.

Upon arrival Scorpina dug a hole near one of the tank pads, turned around, and sat there with her pincers slightly open. I took this to mean she was hoping to catch some food. I gave her a large cricket, she devoured it immediately. For the next 2 weeks she basically ate anything I put in front of her. 10+ crickets, 3 superworms, 1 mealworm, and a partridge in a pear tree. She then started refusing food. I do not leave live feeders in her terrarium. If she doesn't eat it within 1 minute, or literally smacks it away, I remove the feeded and try again in a couple days.

She took a 3 month break from eating, and only started eating again about a week ago. She's eaten 3 large crickets in the past 4-5 days. I know when she's hungry because she sits at the entrance of her primary burrow, with her pincers slightly open, just waiting. As she did when I first got her. She's a fully grown female btw.

She usually comes out at night and mobs around, digs holes, and adds to her network of underground tunnels that are all connected. Fascinating to watch really. I mist every 2 days, and on the non-misting days I turn her humidifier on for 20-30 minutes on low. She seems to really enjoy that, as on hot days she'll come out and sit directly under the humidifiers hose that sprays into her home.

I use an exoterra clip-on hygrometer, and keep humidity around 75%. I use an Accutemp digital thermometer probe to check temperature. I place it in her terrarium, at ground level, to see whats going on.

I have seen Scorpina do what your scorpion is doing, in photo 8 I believe it was, twice. Climbing up the glass. Both times concerned me and caused me to break out the thermometer. Both times something was wrong.

The first time was when the outside temperature began to warm up. Remember I set up my terrarium in the winter. She was climbing up the glass on the cold side. After probing I found temps had dramatically increased and immediately unplugged one of the heat pads. After 10 minutes she returned to her burrow.

The second time will take a little explaining. I bought a powerbar timer designed for aquariums at a local pet store. With outside temperatures consistently hotter (we had an unusually warm end of April/start of May here in BC) I had programmed her 1 heat pad to only come on from 6pm till 11am the next day. Avoiding coming on during the heat of the day. I come home from work at 5:15pm and here she is desperately climbing the glass on the cold side. So I bust out the probe, and sure enough ground temp is 20 degrees Celsius. Yet our air temp inside our home is 21.5 degrees Celsius. I take her heat pad off the timer and simply plug it in, and sure enough 10 minutes later shes back in her burrow.

Sorry for the long reply, but I figured if you're concerned enough to expain in such depth your current situation, then you wouldn't mind the reading. I hope I've been any kind of help. Please feel free to ask me any question you may have, and if I can, I'll answer it. If I can't, hopefully one of the people on here who know infinitely more about these creatures will help. I've only been keeping scorpions for about a year now, and have MUCH still to learn. Coming on this site has been a tremendous help though.

Hello! I believe you're fairly knowledgeable about scorpions, so perhaps you could help me out? I recently got an Emperor Scorpion, roughly 2 weeks ago. I don't think he's eaten since I've gotten him, and I'm being a worrywart over it. The crickets died because I have no idea how to take care of crickets and mealworms, and the only mealworms in his cage are barely moving (plus one of them is turning into a beetle). Oh, and every time I try to lure a cricket torwards him to he can eat it, he PROTECTS the cricket! It's probably nothing, but I just want him to be healthy, ya know? I also don't know about humidity. The terrarium I have is small and has a screen lid, so humidity doesn't stay at all. I'm in Canada, so it gets cold as Hell and the only thing I have for heat is the room temperature and a heating pad on the side of his tank. Maybe the temperature is why he isn't eating? (I'd send pics of him and his terrarium but it's midnight and I have no idea how to send pictures on this site. Newbie here!)

Sorry this post ((thing)) was a mess. Like I said, it's midnight and I'm staying up to ask questions about a scorpion. There's always that one person. Thanks so much for any help you can give!!