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Frogs for Ts

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by Fingolfin, Feb 4, 2009.

  1. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin Arachnoangel

    Does anyone breed frogs for their Ts, or is it just too much trouble? I thought since T. blondi live off a lot of frogs that someone may have tried this, especially given the amount from the wild that may have parasites.... Just curious!
  2. bamato

    bamato Arachnodemon

    This seems like it would be a slow and pricier way of feeding... You hve to feed crickets/roaches to the food item that you want to feed to the blondi.... when you could just gutload and feed multiple crickets/roaches to the blondi itself...

    And you have to "grow" the frog. They arent exactly quick growers :(
  3. Moltar

    Moltar ArachnoGod

    What about raising anoles or some other small, cheap lizard? Would that be easier of harder than frogs?

    Be it frogs, lizards or small monkeys, it sounds like a good idea if you have the need for that size and quantity of feeders.
  4. bamato

    bamato Arachnodemon

    It just seems to me that putting tht much effort into a prey item when there are other options out there is a bit frivelous. When you could just feed a bog roach or 5...

    Just my .02 though....
  5. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin Arachnoangel

    Not really debating how hard it would be to do, just curious if anyone has tried it. :)
  6. NixHexDude

    NixHexDude Arachnoknight

    I'd think it would be much easier to breed anoles, though I know that wasn't really your question. If you decide to try it, we'd love to see pictures and hear about it.
  7. bamato

    bamato Arachnodemon

    My mistake. :}
  8. testdasi

    testdasi Arachnoangel

    The main concern is that frogs are high in calcium and parasites. The same reason making using mice as feeder a bad idea makes using frog as a feeder a bad idea. And it has everything to do with calcium/parasite and nothing to do with ethic.
  9. Zoltan

    Zoltan Cult Leader

    Apparently nature did.


  10. That would be cool. I read somwere here that tarantulas are made to eat cold-blooded vertebrates more than hot blooded. I don't know the biological reason though, so I wouldn't bet on that...

    Next summer I am gonna try with frédérick. We won't go through the entire breeding process since that would be quite complicated, we're just gonna capture some tadpole from a pond and grow them until they reach feedable size. Growing them will remove the risk for pesticides, but parasites will still be an issue...However I think most parasites that affect a tadpole won't harm a tarantula 6 months later...

    If this is of any interest to anyone we could post the results if we do decide to try.
  11. Parasites via food are only a concern if a tarantula is the final host for a parasite residing in the food as an intermediate host. I seriously doubt frogs serve as intermediate hosts for any spider parasites.

    Does anyone have any available studies indicating a detrimental relation between calcium intake via food? So far I can only find anecdotal statements, here and on other boards, that calcium is a cause of molting problems. I can find no information regarding calcium's role in the physiology of ecdysis. Additional references anyone?
  12. Fingolfin

    Fingolfin Arachnoangel

    I'd be curious about that as well!

    No worries :)
    I'm not sure about that. I've had the chance to talk about this subject with Rick West about the bad molts experienced here with T. blondi, he feels its diet and humidity. I asked what blondi eats in its natural environment, he said frogs and roaches primarily.... so naturally I am curious to see how that would work out...
  13. Moltar

    Moltar ArachnoGod

    This was asked recently in this thread and nobody, including Mr. T Keepers Guide himself Stan Schultz was able to point to any specific evidence. I have some thoughts on the matter which I cover there.

    I'd like to see some hard data on this myself but I have a feeling the research has never been conducted so it's all anecdotal evidence at best.
  14. Yes, I followed that thread during its development. I thought I'd raise the question again since the subject came up again in this thread. A number of crustaceans regulate calcium in their exoskeletons, so I'd be hard pressed to think it has detrimental consequences for spiders. On the topic of minerals, I have a paper from Journal of Experimental Biology (1989) where an Aphonopelma , as well as several other spiders, were shown to have zinc and manganese layers in the fang cuticle. The authors were cautious to speculate on any functions these minerals might have.
  15. testdasi

    testdasi Arachnoangel

    If you are raising T's for scientific research then you can probably throw anything at the T's to see if it harms the T's.

    However, most of us keep T's as pets and the question is similar to "Will you feed your dog/cat something that several people believe can kill your dog/cat?" I know the evidence is anecdotal and there isn't any formal research on the subject. But I'd rather be safe than sorry.

    I'm not against a vert treat every now and then. I think in nature, T's will come across some frogs and mice every now and then. I just don't think raising vert as feeder is a good idea. In nature, a T doesn't eat mice all the time.

    Anyone wants to feed their T's primarily verts - that's fine but don't cry when your T's die of a bad/wet molt. If verts are not your primary feeder then there is no reason to raise them as feeder. Stay with roaches, crix, mealworms and those easy to raise inverts.
  16. james

    james Arachnobaron Old Timer


    This is a very interesting topic as I have heard some of the Europeans have used frogs, lizards, etc, when breeding some of these large ground dwelling species. I have been thinking of trying this with some of my spiders. I wouldn't even mind buying them from a clean source if I can find them.
  17. Moltar

    Moltar ArachnoGod

    I don't recall ever seeing anybody report these molt issues with Lasiadora, Acanthroscurria, etc, only T blondi. I'm inclined to believe that people feed these big beasts mice just as much as they do T blondi's. There are probably more LP's and genics out there than blondi's so you'd think we'd be hearing more about bad molts and such with them too. My amateur opinion is that whether calcium/minerals is a contributing factor to these problems or not, there is also something specific to T blondi that contributes.

    There's just no hard evidence in either direction though so it's all guesswork.
  18. testdasi

    testdasi Arachnoangel

    I remember reading that Robc's late P. regalis came from a seller who fed mice exclusively and the T died of a wet mold.
  19. NixHexDude

    NixHexDude Arachnoknight

    I tend to agree with this line of reasoning. I've read a good deal about blondi's, though I've never had to initiative to try raising one. In any case it seems to me they are more problematic to begin with. Anyone raising these three genera might be able to shed some light on this subject.

    Also, I think that pokies eating mice could be a problem because they don't encounter them in the wild. The Lassie, Accantho and blondi all eat frogs in the wild. Perhaps the biochemistry is such that warm blooded mice aren't good for T's. In any case I'd like to see a picture of a pokie eating a mouse in the wild before applying that to the subject of frogs. I doubt the difference is in the calcium. Again though, I am not even close to an expert. I'd be curious to hear Cheshire's thoughts.
  20. Why would a lizard or frog be acceptable but a mouse not? By their very nature of being sit and wait predators, tarantulas are opportunistic carnivores. There's probably nothing about the physiology of their digestive processes that would leave them so discriminating, especially given that most have been captive bred and have no clue what their wild brethren are eating.