Forming groups per state para pokies

[EDED]

Just a thought,

getting a CB permit should be not impossible although I do not know how pain in the butt it can be yet.
BTW import/export permit is super easy, just 100 bucks for a year, and nowadays they have a new system where renewal of the permit takes 48 hours.

anyways,
Instead of relying on 'pro' breeders or dealers online with website or facebook overnight sellers, this is a good opportunity for fans of Poecilotheria or even for new upcoming hobbyists to start forming a real community per state to 'conserve' domestic CB pokies.

ironic isn't it? now we must put conservation effort in the US so theses CB pokies dont extinct ahhah doesn't matter how you look at it, its most absurd regulations ever.

 

[MintyWood826]

getting a CB permit

Isn't captive breeding still allowed with this law?

 

[rasulsimakshah]

Isn't captive breeding still allowed with this law?

AFAIK captive breeding and keeping are okay, but any interstate transport for commercial purposes is prohibited. so any selling of those 5 species has to be done in-state.

 

[Nightstalker47]

any selling of those 5 species has to be done in-state.

Not legal to sell actually, they would have to be given away for free...anything considered "commercial activity'' would be strictly prohibited.

Doesn't make any sense from a conservation standpoint, and will simply discourage the breeding of these five species more then anything.

 

[ErinM31]

Just a thought,

getting a CB permit should be not impossible although I do not know how pain in the butt it can be yet.
BTW import/export permit is super easy, just 100 bucks for a year, and nowadays they have a new system where renewal of the permit takes 48 hours.

anyways,
Instead of relying on 'pro' breeders or dealers online with website or facebook overnight sellers, this is a good opportunity for fans of Poecilotheria or even for new upcoming hobbyists to start forming a real community per state to 'conserve' domestic CB pokies.

ironic isn't it? now we must put conservation effort in the US so theses CB pokies dont extinct ahhah doesn't matter how you look at it, its most absurd regulations ever.

Unless I have misunderstood, those CB permits are actually quite difficult to get, but even so, it will still be legal to buy and sell these species within each state. (That doesn’t make sense to me; blocking import is one thing but why should trade across states matter at all when it’s not a species native to any of them? But I digress...)

Makes me glad I live in a large state! But just to be sure, I’m ordering some P. ornata and P. bara (pretty sure the latter will be considered P. subfusca at least as far as the law is concerned). Really not something I could afford this month, but one must have priorities.

 

[MetalMan2004]

Not legal to sell actually, they would have to be given away for free...anything considered "commercial activity'' would be strictly prohibited.

Doesn't make any sense from a conservation standpoint, and will simply discourage the breeding of these five species more then anything.

Check again, they will be able to be sold in-state, but cannot be part of “commercial activity” if being sent interstate. There was a further clarification that breeding loans with slings being given back to the males owner is legal as well. Don’t take my word as legal advise though. Check it out for yourself.

Unless I have misunderstood, those CB permits are actually quite difficult to get, but even so, it will still be legal to buy and sell these species within each state. (That doesn’t make sense to me; blocking import is one thing but why should trade across states matter at all when it’s not a species native to any of them? But I digress...)

Makes me glad I live in a large state! But just to be sure, I’m ordering some P. ornata and P. bara (pretty sure the latter will be considered P. subfusca at least as far as the law is concerned). Really not t something I could afford this month, but one must have priorities.

I’m curious to see what happens with the subfusca highland/ lowland/ bara thing as well.

 

[Nightstalker47]

Check again, they will be able to be sold in-state, but cannot be part of “commercial activity”

That would depend on the laws of each individual state, some may prohibit this while others may not.

 

[AphonopelmaTX]

There is a whole FAQ from the Fish and Wildlife Service concerning this topic. I suggest everyone read it as well as the Endangered Species Act foreign species page.

Everything you need is at this page https://www.fws.gov/endangered/what-we-do/foreign-species.html

 

[EDED]

sorry i wasn't clear

I meant CB permit for inTERstate trade not inTRAstate

however for intrastate some pokie fans should form a group or network something like that to keep the species going for our pleasure

 

[Liquifin]

Really great idea..... But can't we still buy from expos or no?????? This whole "species protection" thing by the government is stupid IMO. Why prevent five pokies from being kept and bred, when India drops the bomb on their environment and just trash it. I mean have any of you heard of the Ganges river polution??? check it out and ask if you still have hope on the pokies in the wild, because I don't. The biggest question is why just these five??? why wasn't the other pokies like P. metallica not on here as well. Especially if there number is more vulnerable than those five??? Well.... at some point all the pokies are going to be added to that list.

 

[MintyWood826]

The biggest question is why just these five??? why wasn't the other pokies like P. metallica not on here as well. Especially if there number is more vulnerable than those five???

I'm pretty sure they're considering six more species and that's one of them

 

[Gaherp]

Which states have it stating you can't sell them in your own state? I was under the impression that it will still be legal to sell within the state you reside.

 

[Liquifin]

Which states have it stating you can't sell them in your own state? I was under the impression that it will still be legal to sell within the state you reside.

does that mean it is still possible to buy/sell them at expos????

 

[dangerforceidle]

The biggest question is why just these five???

From what I understand, this group of additions to ESA covers species found natively in Sri Lanka specifically. Not all of India, and not the entire genus.

 

[lostbrane]

It is only the 5 Sri Lankan ones for now. The Indian species were part of the original proposal 8-9 years ago but were seemingly dropped. I have not found anything yet to suggest that they will be added BUT it is imperative we all stay observant/try to get information so that way perhaps something more could be done in the event there is a petition or will be a petition for the previously proposed species.

Personally, I’m surprised P. metallica didn’t tag along with this.

@Liquifin this should answer a lot of your queries: https://www.fws.gov/endangered/esa-library/pdf/USFWS-5-Sri-Lankan-Poecilotheria-Q-As-final.pdf

(Also thanks @AphonopelmaTX for posting the root link. Greatly appreciated.)

 

[FrDoc]

Just a thought,

getting a CB permit should be not impossible although I do not know how pain in the butt it can be yet.
BTW import/export permit is super easy, just 100 bucks for a year, and nowadays they have a new system where renewal of the permit takes 48 hours.

anyways,
Instead of relying on 'pro' breeders or dealers online with website or facebook overnight sellers, this is a good opportunity for fans of Poecilotheria or even for new upcoming hobbyists to start forming a real community per state to 'conserve' domestic CB pokies.

ironic isn't it? now we must put conservation effort in the US so theses CB pokies dont extinct ahhah doesn't matter how you look at it, its most absurd regulations ever.

Nah, there are many other absurd regulations. Example: When I was on the SWAT Team I went to a gun shop to buy a new pistol to carry off-duty. I knew the regulation, but the store owner was bound to advise me of the three day waiting period before I could take possession of the pistol. I was carrying two pistols on my person, had an M-16 rifle, a HK sub machine gun, a Benelli semi-auto shotgun, and a pump action shotgun in my car. REALLY???!!!

 

[Gaherp]

does that mean it is still possible to buy/sell them at expos????

If the person that owns that species is selling at the expo in the same state I would say yes. Now what may occur if a wildlife officer was at said expo, and knew his laws(comical but possible). That officer could prevent sales to individuals attending the expo to buy them but are from another state. I could be wrong, but if lacey is what they were trying to enforce. The purchase of the pokie and driving it over state lines is technically breaking that law.

 

[Olan]

Yes, apparently they are now considering the Indian species too, except for regalis (still a lot in the wild) and maybe tigrinawesselli (not sure why).

 

[Greasylake]

That officer could prevent sales to individuals attending the expo to buy them but are from another state. I could be wrong, but if lacey is what they were trying to enforce. The purchase of the pokie and driving it over state lines

I think we could expect breeders to require you to show them a drivers license so they can ensure any sales of these species would be going to a resident of that state.

 

[Vinny2915]

I wouldn't be too worried, I'm sure people are still going to sell over state lines, it is bound to happen. Just look at it in Toronto, it is illegal to keep any animal with venom, but no one cares, they keep, breed, sell without any problems.