Florida Tarantulas

[Kirk]

I will be heading down to Miami this Thanksgiving and I would like to find some of the Tarantulas that have become established. I was wondering if there is any "hard" info or first hand accounts of (A) what tarantula species have established themselves in FL and (B) where the locations are. I saw several threads about Ts in FL here, but no sources or first hand accounts seemed to show up.
Thanks so much for any info!

Why not just buy some of the Florida slings offered for sale by Joe (xhexdx)?

 

[xhexdx]

Ah.
Hey, does anyone know how they got their in the first place?

The story I heard was something about LPS owners dumping gravid females into orange groves.

 

[kbekker]

They are in a very small area in Florida...hardly affecting its ecosystem.

In my opinion, anyway.

Not too long ago they said Burmese pythons were only associated with the canals and pump stations, and may not be a real invasive issue.

 

[xhexdx]

And right now the government is making it out to be a lot worse than it really is.

I'll be posting about that in the correct subforum soon enough.

 

[JDeRosa]

They became established when a breeder decided to dump this species (B. Vagans) into the wild to establish a colony so as to get around CITES laws.

 

[Miss Bianca]

I have read the part about an
irresponsible breeder(s) who
set them free purposely, as
JDeRosa suggested/stated, and
I have also read that some or
all could simply have been
specimens that may have
hitched a ride in boxes and/or fruit shipments that come in
as imports or on ships-
actually fruits or any other
goods being delivered that way.

Both seem like they could be the cause of the establishment of either species, and FL is one of the few states where these could survive past a few generations, (hence-population).

 

[jayefbe]

By untainted, they mean that many of the hobby B.vagans are suspected to be hybrids. The wild Florida ones are supposedly purer from that standpoint.

And the B.vagans are debatebly not invasive, just not local. From what I've researched (not much I will admit), they have actually helped the ecosystem.

Ah.
Hey, does anyone know how they got their in the first place?

How are wild Florida vagans more pure if they came from the same stock that has made up the hobby vagans?

Also, any species that has developed a population well outside of its native range is invasive. I see no reason this population should be protected.

 

[Xian]

Might be a good population to look at for the effects of multi generational inbreeding. Of course we don't know what the initial population was. One gravid female or multiple individuals?

 

[jayefbe]

Might be a good population to look at for the effects of multi generational inbreeding. Of course we don't know what the initial population was. One gravid female or multiple individuals?

Garrick O'dell already has an OBT group that's 8 generations inbred with no effects. I have a few of them.

 

[Moltar]

Why not just buy some of the Florida slings offered for sale by Joe (xhexdx)?

This. This is what people should be doing here. If we set aside issues of invasive species for a moment, we have a very small, very localized population of a beautiful species right under our noses. Just because they're classified as invasive is no reason to run in and rape the area of it's 8 legged booty. Anybody making an effort to get this bloodline of B. vagans into the hobby should be supported.

Over the top wild collecting is no more appropriate here than it would be in Arizona or Chile or Ecuador or India or wherever.

In spite of the result (me not being able to collect them myself) I totally understand when people in the know like Joe or Josh_R refuse to publicly divulge the location of healthy populations.

I hope that these vagans never prove to be a "dangerously" invasive species and thus manage to stay relatively under the radar and not get culled. It gives me warm fuzzies knowing they're down there somewhere, digging around in US soil.

 

[Kirk]

Might be a good population to look at for the effects of multi generational inbreeding. Of course we don't know what the initial population was. One gravid female or multiple individuals?

The FL population is analogous to island colonization events or peripheral isolates, where there can be an 'evolutionary bottleneck.' This has the potential to allow for novel traits to get quickly (in evolutionary time) fixed in the population, such that these B. vagans might eventually be discernible from the more panmictic populations in Mexico.

 

[Bill S]

Also, any species that has developed a population well outside of its native range is invasive. I see no reason this population should be protected.

There are actual standards for what qualifies as an "invasive" species, as opposed to an "introduced" species. At this point, the B. vagans is an introduced species, not an invasive one. "Introduced" means any plant or animal that has become established outside its natural range. B. vagans certainly qualifies under that heading. "Invasive" means that the introduced species cannot be contained and is causing negative impact, either ecologically or economically. Nobody has yet indicated that B vagans fits these criteria. While it is established in a small region where it was first introduced, it does not seem to be spreading, has not caused any economic damage (such as destruction of the orange groves) nor has anyone documented any ecological impact (no indication that any other plant or animal seems to be suffering because of its presence).

As for protecting the population - I don't see any reason for it either. Studied, yes. Protected, no.

 

[JimM]

There are actual standards for what qualifies as an "invasive" species, as opposed to an "introduced" species. At this point, the B. vagans are an introduced species, not an invasive one.

Thanks Bill.
I was going to point this out earlier.

Many introduced species never in fact become "invasive".
A good example of an invasive species out this way is the bullfrog, which has completely displaced native species in some areas.

I agree with your remarks on protection as well.
Florida is a mess.

 

[Moltar]

There are actual standards for what qualifies as an "invasive" species, as opposed to an "introduced" species. At this point, the B. vagans are an introduced species, not an invasive one. "Introduced" means any plant or animal that has become established outside its natural range. B. vagans certainly qualifies under that heading. "Invasive" means that the introduced species cannot be contained and is causing negative impact, either ecologically or economically. Nobody has yet indicated that B vagans fits these criteria. While it is established in a small region where it was first introduced, it does not seem to be spreading, has not caused any economic damage (such as destruction of the orange groves) nor has anyone documented any ecological impact (no indication that any other plant or animal seems to be suffering because of its presence).

As for protecting the population - I don't see any reason for it either. Studied, yes. Protected, no.

Thank you for clarifying this Bill. This is basically the point I was attempting to make near the end of my last post but I didn't have the, uh, -whatchamacallum- words to express my point.

 

[Bill S]

Hey, does anyone know how they got their in the first place?

This has come up on another discussion board. Someone posting there claimed first hand knowledge of this. He indicated that an importer he knew dumped several egg sacs from wild-caught females there. That would mean that the genetic diversity is pretty limited - less than a dozen founding individuals. I have not seen a specific date given for the release, but that would be interesting to know. It might give us an idea how quickly populations might rebound if protected, etc.

 

[jayefbe]

Thanks for the clarification Bill, I tend to think in terms of plants, in which the vast majority of introduced species will quickly become invasive.

It would be interesting to study the wild Florida population of vagans, of course, I'd still be worried about them reaching invasive status. If they seem confined to a specific site then that likely won't ever become a problem. Plus, an orange grove is pretty far from native habitat. I doubt a tarantula could negatively impact that "ecosystem".

 

[Bill S]

I doubt a tarantula could negatively impact that "ecosystem".

Unless they develop a taste for fresh oranges.....:}

 

[Harmony67]

all jokes aside for a minute, Why would you want to protect an invasive species?

One of the problems with going into an area to hunt for anything is the possible damage caused by the hunters. If these T's are in a small area it could be very badly affected by a bunch of folks going in and scrubbing around for spiders.

Up here we in Michigan we hide the Morel mushroom locations...we don't have T's

 

[mickey66]

B.Vagans In FL

I have been told that Farmers in that area in FL.are spraying pesticides and the B.Vagans are in danger of being eraticated....any truth in this?

 

[xhexdx]

Not that I'm aware.