FL Man arrested for smuggling roaches

khil

Arachnobaron
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Hmm...I didn't hear anyone compare one to another, or say one was more devastating than another.

Again, you're completely missing it, but that's ok.
My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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I actually find you to be quite funny. But my two cents on the whole matter is-- any species that is not native to a said area could be "destructive" if they're basic needs are met but do not have natural predators where its been introduced. Idk if Iam making any sense. But say introducing a hissing roach to alaska and someone scolding you for it--- is pretty messed up stupid. Since I'm pretty sure alaska is an extremely cold place(obv) and won't be able to support a roach that comes from a warm climate and needs warmth to survive.
I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.

Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.

My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.
Please show me how, in your posts quoted below, you tell me what you're telling me in the post quoted above.

so... what? just give up? now even stricter laws are in place. i helped pay for the everglades, i want to see them one day. not covered in boas, giant snails, cuban anoles, and bulldozers
fixed.
Oh you are so righteous! And sure, burmese pythons and cockroaches are way more devastating to Florida's ecosystems than are the feral cats and pigs (and let's not forget tropical deforestation). {D
So you're justifying illegal roaches because we have other animals that are more devastating? Is that what I'm understanding you to be saying?

And you're calling me dense?
 

khil

Arachnobaron
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I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.

Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.



Please show me how, in your posts quoted below, you tell me what you're telling me in the post quoted above.





So you're justifying illegal roaches because we have other animals that are more devastating? Is that what I'm understanding you to be saying?

And you're calling me dense?
No no, when I "fixed" the quote I replaced "boas, giant snails, cuban anoles" with "feral cats, wild boars, and bulldozers." You must have misread something or came across a glitch.
I did this because people are quick to blame snakes and in this case cockroaches for destroying Florida's ecosystem, and they want them illegal; if they really cared about the ecosystem and weren't a bunch of misinformed dimwitts, they would support banning things like CATS, because those have caused so much more damage to Florida's nature.

But no, they're "fuzzy and cute"! And snakes and roaches are ugly! Well, there you have it.

And I never once said I was justifying the importation of illegal roaches, you made that one up to try to defend yourself. I was actually saying that people need to look at bigger threats to Florida's ecosystem before demonizing the insect and reptile hobbyists.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.

My feeling on the matter:

If something isn't native or established, and there's a very high probability that it could become established if it was introduced, then it shouldn't be legal to keep there.

Just not worth the risk, imo.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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I agree, but I suppose I missed how that example relates to this thread.

Every species of roach smuggled here would do just fine in our climate.



Please show me how, in your posts quoted below, you tell me what you're telling me in the post quoted above.





So you're justifying illegal roaches because we have other animals that are more devastating? Is that what I'm understanding you to be saying?

And you're calling me dense?
Hmm well the speaking about smuggling roaches. It's related to that because say if you smuggled a roach that needs a warm climate to a cold place like alaska and its the middle of winter and not only that... say by chance its illegal to bring it in--- that would be stupid. lol.

---------- Post added at 12:58 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:48 AM ----------

Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.

My feeling on the matter:

If something isn't native or established, and there's a very high probability that it could become established if it was introduced, then it shouldn't be legal to keep there.

Just not worth the risk, imo.
Mmm I somewhat agreed with what you say... but sorta want to add to this....

Cats can become "established" in the wild and some even have been let to roam outside homes(people do it all the time). Though some may spay/neuter their animal one has to realize. Not everyone does or would. So just some food for thought on that part.


But.... If its something that could potentially have many predators it wouldn't even be a problem.... A roach is often preyed upon by many other insects, reptiles, amphibians, rodents, etc. Especially the ones mentioned. Those roaches have a soft exoskeleton thus being an easy morsel.

So while it 'may' have some negative effects if it was loose it would also have some "possible" good effects. Think about the fact that say they're so "delicious" to many animals that instead of consuming the species they normally would due to lack of other prey animals they would give that said species that would become prey a "chance" to bloom a bit more and such. It's not like its some super breeding and super destructive species. Where it would make billions and billions of babies a year and none would be able to be eaten because its toxic or too hard shelled or something. Get it?

Though I guess I have mixed feelings on said topic.

---------- Post added at 01:04 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:58 AM ----------

No no, when I "fixed" the quote I replaced "boas, giant snails, cuban anoles" with "feral cats, wild boars, and bulldozers." You must have misread something or came across a glitch.
I did this because people are quick to blame snakes and in this case cockroaches for destroying Florida's ecosystem, and they want them illegal; if they really cared about the ecosystem and weren't a bunch of misinformed dimwitts, they would support banning things like CATS, because those have caused so much more damage to Florida's nature.

But no, they're "fuzzy and cute"! And snakes and roaches are ugly! Well, there you have it.

And I never once said I was justifying the importation of illegal roaches, you made that one up to try to defend yourself. I was actually saying that people need to look at bigger threats to Florida's ecosystem before demonizing the insect and reptile hobbyists.
I don't like cats at all... and I sorta get where you're going at... but believe it or not people in "nature" law enforcement are just "generally" extremely strict and tight arsed.

I got hassled by a wildlife cop because he thought I was catching an endangered turtle species when in reality I was just catching a snapping turtle and a musk turtle. I had my fishing liscence. State law says its legal and in reality guy came up to me and gave me attitude. In all reality I'm pretty calm and shy--- so I wouldn't really pick a fight especially with the "popo" lol.

But this guy kinda overused his power so in a way I do get what you mean.
But to digress I shall say it goes both ways. It depends on the officer and such. For the most part they try to do their hardest.. You have to understand they are just "human" and they just wanna get their job "done". If you were doing your job and your boss told you to do something you didn't agreed with but if you didn't you'd get fired and that said job is actually a job that puts the "bacon" at your dinner table I'm pretty sure you would do whatever it takes to get it done.

Sadly that's how life goes and works. If not they'd be out of a job... But hey who knows--- I'm no expert on this topic.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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But.... If its something that could potentially have many predators it wouldn't even be a problem.... A roach is often preyed upon by many other insects, reptiles, amphibians, rodents, etc. Especially the ones mentioned. Those roaches have a soft exoskeleton thus being an easy morsel.

So while it 'may' have some negative effects if it was loose it would also have some "possible" good effects. Think about the fact that say they're so "delicious" to many animals that instead of consuming the species they normally would due to lack of other prey animals they would give that said species that would become prey a "chance" to bloom a bit more and such. It's not like its some super breeding and super destructive species. Where it would make billions and billions of babies a year and none would be able to be eaten because its toxic or too hard shelled or something. Get it?
No. Not at all.

Very basic example:

Predator A typically eats Prey B and C. Because Prey B and C have a natural predator, their populations remain in check, and balance is maintained.

Prey D gets smuggled in to the state, escapes, and begins reproducing. Predator A has a new food source now, but Predator's carrying capacity hasn't changed, so what it consumes from Prey D is no longer being consumed from Prey B and C.

Now Prey B and C begin to reproduce out of control, in addition to Prey D being where it doesn't belong.

This is, of course, assuming there is a predator (or two) that will even start eating the new bug.

It's just not a good situation, no matter how you look at it. No possible benefit to it.
 

Galapoheros

ArachnoGod
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No. Not at all.

Very basic example:

Predator A typically eats Prey B and C. Because Prey B and C have a natural predator, their populations remain in check, and balance is maintained.

Prey D gets smuggled in to the state, escapes, and begins reproducing. Predator A has a new food source now, but Predator's carrying capacity hasn't changed, so what it consumes from Prey D is no longer being consumed from Prey B and C.

Now Prey B and C begin to reproduce out of control, in addition to Prey D being where it doesn't belong.

This is, of course, assuming there is a predator (or two) that will even start eating the new bug.

It's just not a good situation, no matter how you look at it. No possible benefit to it.
Though I agree with your basic opinion in "no non-natives"(at least you said it was an opinion), I think in your scenario, each prey species, B, C, and D, would reduce in numbers until there were basically as much food as B and C were supplying pred A. You may see a pred explosion, then a balance back to species B, C and D, supplying practically the same amount of food that B and C were previously. But I think there would also be many unknowns, so goes the risk. Maybe a slight increase of roaches liking the same habitat but also an increase in prey because of all the food. I'm thinking that more roach species might mean more species, more than it means more roaches, that is if each species likes the same habitat. ...hmm, interesting to think about. Slightly related, hasn't the gov introduced several non-natives, thinking this will control that and that will control this, many times it doesn't work out but hasn't it at times?, I can't think of any examples, haven't looked into it. Jeeez man, I go to bed too late, must-turn-off-computer.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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No. Not at all.

Very basic example:

Predator A typically eats Prey B and C. Because Prey B and C have a natural predator, their populations remain in check, and balance is maintained.

Prey D gets smuggled in to the state, escapes, and begins reproducing. Predator A has a new food source now, but Predator's carrying capacity hasn't changed, so what it consumes from Prey D is no longer being consumed from Prey B and C.

Now Prey B and C begin to reproduce out of control, in addition to Prey D being where it doesn't belong.

This is, of course, assuming there is a predator (or two) that will even start eating the new bug.

It's just not a good situation, no matter how you look at it. No possible benefit to it.
I guess you're right. :p Especially thinking about the cane toad epidemic where they thought they would eat cane beetles and instead they just ate everything else and suckerpunched the gov. xD
 

charlesbrooks

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Have you ever noticed that the species we really like never run rampant in Florida. I'd like to start infestations of Poecilotheria metallicas, Orchid Mantises, Day Geckos, and rare Poison Dart Frogs down there.
According to some reference books, we have Day Geckos est. in south Florida.:D
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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According to some reference books, we have Day Geckos est. in south Florida.:D
A lot of animals have been introduced around the world already. Cane toads, Walking(or talking) catfish, snakeheads(fish), red eared sliders(turtles), american bullfrogs(on the west coast of the usa if I am mistaken and europe), , chinese preying(praying) mantis, and I'm sure there are more t hat have been introduced as well. Due to poor pet care some people choose to abandon their non-native exotic pets into the wild where they "may" breed and if there are no other predators of said animal they become "highly" invasive like said species such as the cane toads, or snakeheads. Or if the species is highly prolific. Or if it consume more than other species of animals would. Say a normal toad would consume 24 crickets a week or something a cane toad would consume 2x as much. Get it?
 

Endagr8

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Other than surinams, I have never found any of the other species of roaches that would be serve as a suitable feeder for me. The surinams keep dying on me too for some unknown reason! It may just be where I live, but I've honestly found more interesting insects in a week in North Carolina than I have here, despite all the hours I've spent hunting. Though I can certainly believe those species exist here, the trick is finding one. I'd consider my self extremely lucky finding just on P. nivea!
That is very surprising. I saw extremely interesting, not to mention huge, odonates and beetles in Orlando, over the span of just a few hours of searching the perimeter of a hotel. If I lived there, I'd surely keep colonies of those awesome house geckos and anoles! :p
Ok, well, at least I have a clearer idea of what it is you were trying to convey, and I thank you for that.

My feeling on the matter:

If something isn't native or established, and there's a very high probability that it could become established if it was introduced, then it shouldn't be legal to keep there.

Just not worth the risk, imo.
Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career! :p
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Yes, they allow you to keep pets.

I'll keep chameleons instead, and probably start a saltwater tank or two.
 

Sooner

Arachnoknight
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Yes, they allow you to keep pets.

I'll keep chameleons instead, and probably start a saltwater tank or two.
Can you keep native inverts in Hawaii?? There are endemic carnivorous inchworms.
 

xhexdx

ArachnoGod
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Yeah, I can keep those if I wanted to.

I'd prefer to look for the happy-faced spiders though.
 

SandDeku

Arachnobaron
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Yeah, I can keep those if I wanted to.

I'd prefer to look for the happy-faced spiders though.
happy faced spiders? and saltwater tanks? GET A PUFFER! :D Those are god dang awesome!

P.s. don't forget to take pictures and s how us. kay? ;c
 

Luis

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That is very surprising. I saw extremely interesting, not to mention huge, odonates and beetles in Orlando, over the span of just a few hours of searching the perimeter of a hotel. If I lived there, I'd surely keep colonies of those awesome house geckos and anoles! :p


Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career! :p
"Then you better start pushing for the legislation that would end your Floridian tarantula keeping career"

Well put . He seems like a self righteous hypocrite.

---------- Post added at 07:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:51 PM ----------

My you are dense. I was saying that boars, cats, and bulldozers do way more ecological harm than the other mentioned species. How you managed to miss that and proceed to start whining on some tangent, is beyond me.
Nothing in ths state as far as non natives can hold a candle to the disaster that pollution run off is causing and the out right development.

Considering we are a jump away from the Carribeans I imagine many non natives like Cuban treefrogs, Knight anoles. Brown anoles ,house geckos and few others have been here hundreds of yrs.

Huge mats of trees etc wash up all the time by shore in Miami.

Like the saying goes "The python didn't kill the Florida panther but the development did".

"The rare monitor hasn't hurt the borrowing owl but the golf course has"

Don't misconstrue what I am saying I don't want non natives but I also know the real cause of the dwindling fauna and it's PC to go after exotic pets while the real cause is ignored.

---------- Post added at 07:12 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:00 PM ----------

He got arrested for forging permits, creating false documents, that kind of thing.

Luis and khil, your posts are a couple of the most ignorant I've read here lately.
Hmmm I think you need to open your eyes a tad and stop pulling the FWC /PETA party line.

Roach is the least of the dangers the Glades have.

Have you ever actually been to the Glades and spoken to officials who work there?

Now the new Gov wants to drill for oil in Glades area and give out rock mining permits but putting that aside humans are the real threat to native fauna.

Look at the Indigo snake and what a disaster golf courses have been for them.

"EPA Must Enforce Anti-Pollution Rules, Florida Has Failed To Protect Everglades"
" "There is no possibility of reversing the damage that has been done to the Everglades, and there is only the chance to preserve what remains in its current state"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/04/26/judge-alan-gold-epa-florida-everglades_n_854075.html

---------- Post added at 07:25 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Oh you are so righteous! And sure, burmese pythons and cockroaches are way more devastating to Florida's ecosystems than are the feral cats and pigs (and let's not forget tropical deforestation). {D

Feral pigs here are a big industry as far as hunting fees and some places you must hire a local guide to hunt on the land.
I wonder if the state actually wants to eradicate them all.

I don't want to sound like a lobbyiest for non natives lol but they are the least of the problems facing fauna here but it is not wise for FWC and politicians here to go after the endless unregulated Florida pollution run off and deforestation.

---------- Post added at 07:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:25 PM ----------

Have you ever noticed that the species we really like never run rampant in Florida. I'd like to start infestations of Poecilotheria metallicas, Orchid Mantises, Day Geckos, and rare Poison Dart Frogs down there.
Lol good post. I have seen day geckos in Keys which is not far from me.

I fish by Glades like once a month and still looking for albino or piebald ball python lol but no such luck.

---------- Post added at 07:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:32 PM ----------

I beg to differ.
I went to Florida for ten days last spring. I was able to find hundreds of Pycnoscelus surinamensis and about 30 or 40 Periplaneta australasiae, just by digging around in some leaf litter on public property. Somebody could very easily start a colony of either and use them as feeders; P. surinamensis are very bulky and ungodly easy to grow.
(For anyone interested I was in Ft. Lauderdale.)
I to have found countless types of roaches by Glades ,beach's even my backyard under stone tiles and side of water troughs and saw some pretty green roach's by Key West think read here they are called banana roach.
 
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