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Five Poecilotheria species - Endangered status and limitations

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by EulersK, Jul 31, 2018.

  1. MintyWood826

    MintyWood826 Arachnoknight Active Member

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    Trying to interpret laws is messing with my brain. There's this one, but now I have to figure out my state's. :dead:
     
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  2. MetalMan2004

    MetalMan2004 Arachnobaron Active Member

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    This is without a doubt one of the most depressing things I’ve seen in a while. The more I think about it though, I think the hobby will adapt to the rules after a bit of time. Breeding loans will obviously become much more popular and obtaining them will be a bit more difficult, but I don’t think they’ll dissapear from the hobby altogether (as long as they don’t write even more strict rules...).

    I’m kind of bummed specifically for the smithi. I always liked them, partly because they were less popular. You don’t see them for sale too often so I’d guess these would be the first to go. I bought a female smithi over a year ago and its now turned out to be a subfusca mutt as its grown. I may never get my hands on a true female smithi now.
     
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  3. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoknight Active Member

    Yes, If they really wanted to protect them they should be trying get India and Sri Lanka to protect their HABITAT, not worrying about getting them the "paper" protection of ESA. This is why the only environmental group I give money to any more is the Nature Conservancy, who actually work on protecting habitats.
     
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  4. Stella Maris

    Stella Maris Arachnoknight

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    So what happens if you plan on moving to a different state and you plan on bringing your animals with you-of which you happen to own one or several of those 5 species-does this mean transportating your animals with you will be illegal?

    If you bought one of the 5 Pokie species from a local expo in the same state you live in, but the police/authorities/whatever don't believe you and think you're trying to "smuggle" the animal across state lines?

    Then what if "the law" can't differentiate between those 5 species and other Pokie species, then ALL Pokie species become suspect?
     
  5. Greasylake

    Greasylake Arachnoangel Active Member

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    There's no transaction going on with the spiders, so it's perfectly legal. As we've said before, they can cross state lines as long as no one is paying for it. If you move it's not even changing hands, there's no exchange or transaction whatsoever.

    They can't do anything without probable cause. Shouldn't be very hard to prove you're a resident of that state anyway, just show a drivers license with your address on it.
     
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  6. MintyWood826

    MintyWood826 Arachnoknight Active Member

    Transporting them throughout the country is legal, as long as they were legally acquired and aren't being sold.

    Haha @Greasylake beat me
     
    • Like Like x 2
  7. Torech Ungol

    Torech Ungol Arachnosquire Active Member

    That might actually be viable. I don't know the legal details of a 501 (c)3, but it seems to me that one should be able to set one up, and run a non-profit that gives these species away to qualified owners. It would require an in-depth look at the laws for a 501 (c)3 to know for sure, but that definitely seems feasible.
     
  8. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoknight Active Member

    Reading this thread and this thread - http://arachnoboards.com/threads/potential-hobby-setbacks.309327 - I think there is some confusion between the T. seladonia issue and Sri Lanka poecilotheria issue. From what I understand this is basically the difference:

    The T. seladonia situation is a Lacey act violation - banning importation and interstate sales, but not in state sales or ownership of these spiders.

    The Sri Lanka poecilotheria situation involves the Endangered Species Act - banning all sales of these species but not ownership or transference (for free) of these species.

    If I left anything important out, or made any mistakes, please feel free to correct.
    I posted this in both threads
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  9. JAFUENTES

    JAFUENTES Arachnoknight Arachnosupporter

    Why not use a t species that act's as an equivalent monetary wise. A swap if you may but not at the same time so it's not a trade by presence. (Just a theory only)
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2018
  10. sschind

    sschind Arachnobaron Old Timer

    It apparently works with baby turtles. All I can say is there are a lot of 5 year old educators and scientists out there judging by all the little kids I see walking around the swaps with baby turtles.
     
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  11. sschind

    sschind Arachnobaron Old Timer

    I agree. People tried that with baby turtles and it didn't fly. Buy this setup and get a free turtle.
     
  12. lostbrane

    lostbrane Arachnoknight Arachnosupporter

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  13. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoknight Active Member

    Okay, so you can sell Sri Lankan pokies within your state. While that's better than no sales at all it will still severally restrict sales (and the breeding that goes with commercial sales). And, as a buyer, if you can't find these species in your state you're out of luck.
     
  14. Lamia

    Lamia Arachnopeon

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    I was thinking more on the lines of free sling, but shipping is 10X the amount it normal is??? :smuggrin:
     
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  15. John Apple

    John Apple Just a guy Old Timer

    selling across state lines....?....I'll just sell at local shows
     
  16. Aleetist

    Aleetist Arachnopeon Active Member

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    I am hoping there will be enough demand for them that I hopefully can still get them at local-ish trade shows. The shows around me seem to be a bit scant and I will probably have to end up driving out of state at some point where there might be a better market and better chance.
     
  17. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    I read the document. You cannot sell those species across state lines. However, it is not illegal to own these species listed. Nor is it illegal to transport these species across state lines PROVIDED transport is not for purposes of sales. So if you are moving from Montana to Maine, you are fine.

    Just a matter of time before the rest of this genus is added.

    How is this done?
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 6, 2018
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  18. Torech Ungol

    Torech Ungol Arachnosquire Active Member

    You won't really be able to do that, unfortunately. Both buyer and seller must reside in the same state for a sale to take place, so no driving to out-of-state shows to pick any up.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  19. MikeyD

    MikeyD Arachnosquire Active Member


    The grower/exporter of the plant has to be able to fulfill the requirements of CITIES. This is required with all orchid species and Nepenthes species to ship them across boarders. With species that are strictly controlled it requires authorization of plant material that can be used for propagation, in most cases of the above plants that means both seed raised and tissue culture production.
    One of the most high profile occurrences in the Orchid world happened in the early 2000s when a new species of South American slipper orchid was discovered and illegally transported to the United States. The country of origin in this case was Peru and they were not impressed by the actions of the botanists who smuggled the new species out of the country. It ended up that the species was ravaged by collectors who sought a quick buck and the wild population put into severe danger of extinction in habitat.
    And this is the problem that always seems to occur when a species is described to science, it's location published, and it's of any commercial value. The wild populations are pillaged, the habitat damaged, and the future of the species in cultivation/captivity is also scrutinized.
    In the genus Nepenthes it is N clipeata that has seen a similar fate yet the species is now produced via tissue culture and distributed legally by growers such as Borneo Exotics and Wistuba. In habitat the plants are still highly endangered and probably only the most inaccessible plants are still left on the summit of Mt Kelam in Kalimantan Borneo. There is thought to be little more than a dozen plants left in habitat and still evidence of poaching within recent months/years.

    I am not sure exactly what framework exists as far as receiving CITIES certification but those questions could be asked directly of that organization. It also depends on the country of origin and if they allow export of flora and fauna, many do not. Many of these Orchid and Nepenthes species are highly controlled yet they are still available on the market as fully legal plants so it is possible to produce and market them if the rules of CITIES are followed. Perhaps tissue culture has been the saving grace with plant production and the Tarantula hobby has no parallel, but because these species already exist in captivity there could still be a way to breed and distribute them. Maybe similar to how Mexico is producing Brachypelma sp and exporting them along with CITIES certificates that accompany the T which can be kept by the customer as proof of provenance.

    http://carnivorousockhom.blogspot.com/2014/02/phragmipedium-kovachii-beauty-and.html

    https://pollenatrix.com/2003/12/29/phrag_kovachii_-4/

     
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  20. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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    Thank you very much for your time. I'm only barely aware of plants in terms of propogation. However, I am aware of danger plants are in due to poaching. I read article in NYTimes I THINK, around this time about the poaching of orchids. All of these prized orchids sought after due to how rare they are, or pretty etc.

    I LOVE pitcher plants!!!