first venomous snake

thebugfreak

Arachnoknight
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id get a simple crotalus. they grow like 3 feet max.

but a snake hook or a snake tong is a must when you keep venomous snakes
 

Ookamii

Arachnosquire
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Corals are fine, there is still antivenom for them in texas, i used to have a friend that cought Hots local to texas and sold them for there antivenom to hospitals. Corals stay pretty small, and are harder to bit you then most Hots are being thay have the rear fangs.
 

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
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Corals are fine, there is still antivenom for them in texas, i used to have a friend that cought Hots local to texas and sold them for there antivenom to hospitals. Corals stay pretty small, and are harder to bit you then most Hots are being thay have the rear fangs.
You are absolutely WRONG! Coral snakes of the genus Micrurus are members of the Elapidae family, as are mambas, cobras, kraits, etc., meaning fixed front fangs and a very effective venom delivery system. You must have mistaken the term rear facing fangs, not the same thing as rear fanged. They are also VERY difficult to keep in captivity since they primarily feed on skinks, lizards and frogs. They can be switched over to mice, but you are talking about coming in even closer contact with a potentially very dangerous reptile. I would not recommend a Coral snake to anyone without ALOT of knowledge and hotkeeping experience. Most kept in captivity die pretty quickly. Crotalidae genus would be a much better choice in my opinion for a first hot. But you need experience with handling any hot animal before thinking about acquiring a hot. And contact your local hospitals and Zoos to make sure they have the appropriate, most up to date, NON EXPIRED(which ends up being the case in alot of places) anti-venom available just in case. And ofcourse check your local laws and do some serious research first.
 
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kevin91172

Arachnobaron
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You are absolutely WRONG! Coral snakes of the genus Micrurus are members of the Elapidae family, as are mambas, cobras, kraits, etc., meaning fixed front fangs and a very effective venom delivery system. You must have mistaken the term rear facing fangs, not the same thing as rear fanged. They are also VERY difficult to keep in captivity since they primarily feed on skinks, lizards and frogs. They can be switched over to mice, but you are talking about coming in even closer contact with a potentially very dangerous reptile. I would not recommend a Coral snake to anyone without ALOT of knowledge and hotkeeping experience. Most kept in captivity die pretty quickly. Crotalidae genus would be a much better choice in my opinion for a first hot. But you need experience with handling any hot animal before thinking about acquiring a hot. And contact your local hospitals and Zoos to make sure they have the appropriate, most up to date, NON EXPIRED(which ends up being the case in alot of places) anti-venom available just in case. And ofcourse check your local laws and do some serious research first.
Just talk to a pro herper from south Texas and teaches at a university I just completed a trade with.
I mentioned the coral snake I had for a month in captivity,he told me they only eat other snakes.He had some success with scented pinkies and got them transferred over.

As far as the first hot with coral,I strongly would not recommend.You find one just send it my way:D
 

the toe cutter

Arachnobaron
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They do eat small ground dwelling snakes as well, but most I have seen collected and force-regurgitated had mainly frogs and lizards in them. But I have only ever seen M fulvius too and that may be why as well. I have still never seen one in the wild before and have been actively herping for over 15yrs. I wish I could! I'd breed more corns and garters just to feed them{D!
 

P.jasonius

Arachnobaron
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Im sure by now the OP has decided on what to do, but for those that might come arcoss this thred because they are thinking about getting a Hot Snake, I'd follow the same course of action I was recomended. I started with water snakes and other small fast species that were known to be ill tempered. Each time I was bitten I doccumented in a journal, over a course of six months I was bitten 17 times. When I went back to my mentor who owned several hots, he explained that each time I was bitten imagine costly hosptial stays upwards of 100,000 dollars or more and that they could last several months these stays. I quickly got the message and decided to rethink my desire. In the end I ended u a False Water Cobra. A rear fangged snake from south america. Their venom is mild and has yet to cause any confrimed deaths. One reason for this is that they cannot deliver venom with thier fangs as they are in the rear of the mouth and are not Hypodermic, they are merely grooved teeth and therefore have to chew on thier prey to envenomate. So If you are bitten you have a good bit of time to remove the snake before it causes real damage. Captive bred FWC's I have found to tollarte handling but can be a bit moody at times. They also have a very aggressive feeding response, so expect a ravenous animal when it comes time to eat.
All in all I'd recomend staying away from the venomous snakes all together, the risks outweigh the benifets, if you really need to see them, go to your local zoo. And remember, the deadlist snake is the one that just bit you, so please people don't keep them unless you have the experiance and the expertiese, if you have to ask if you are experianced enough to keep one, then most likely you are not.
Holy necropost batman!

We (OP and I) still don't have any hots, because we're converting a room into a 'hot room' first. We've been working with someone for the last six months, learning hands on stuff, but I won't disclose any more than that (just deleted my original post after I thought better of it lol).
Sorry you had a negative experience. Have you considered that your techniques were incorrect? We haven't even been close to being bit. Why were you attempting to "grab the head or tail of the snake"? That's not using hooks or being very careful...
 

Ookamii

Arachnosquire
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Just talk to a pro herper from south Texas and teaches at a university I just completed a trade with.
I mentioned the coral snake I had for a month in captivity,he told me they only eat other snakes.He had some success with scented pinkies and got them transferred over.

As far as the first hot with coral,I strongly would not recommend.You find one just send it my way:D
I find corals all the time in my yard i catch and move them to a further location or my dad will kill them on sight, if you want them ill send them to you instead lol, we have ALOT of babies slithering around my yard currently.

and toecutter, im sorry if i got that wrong, i was goin off information a friend of mine had told me, he is now deceased, and surprisinngly not from all the Hots he kept in his house.
 

kevin91172

Arachnobaron
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I find corals all the time in my yard i catch and move them to a further location or my dad will kill them on sight, if you want them ill send them to you instead lol, we have ALOT of babies slithering around my yard currently.

and toecutter, im sorry if i got that wrong, i was goin off information a friend of mine had told me, he is now deceased, and surprisinngly not from all the Hots he kept in his house.
Yes that will work,I will come get everyone you get.It will be a great experience for me to learn to keep if not stretching to far breed them in captivity.
 

BigJ999

Arachnoknight
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Corals are fine, there is still antivenom for them in texas, i used to have a friend that cought Hots local to texas and sold them for there antivenom to hospitals. Corals stay pretty small, and are harder to bit you then most Hots are being thay have the rear fangs.
Actually they can bite you pretty good as they are Elapidae with those fixed front fangs and the myth they can't bite you could be deadly. The coral snake is the most venomous snake in north America the Eastern Coral snake has actually two fatality's to its name now. Venom wise Coral snakes are a lot like the Krait's which have mostly presynaptic neurotoxins which are deadly but very slow acting. Unfortunately due to this slow acting venom some people don't get medical help and have died due to respiratory failure which is how their venom kill's. As for the amount a Coral snake has to inject to be fatal very little I think a drop of their venom or less is actually fatal due to the fact is it incredibly potent venom. But its slow acting it maybe 8-12 hours before it starts taking effect and when it does take effect it is rapid I like coral snakes but i don't see myself getting one as a first hot :) I think anti-venom for these guy's expired recently actually so getting bite could get you in big big trouble.
 

Deftones90

Arachnosquire
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Sep 13, 2011
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I'd have to agree on the copperhead. A southern was my first hot and I never really had any issues with it. Rode a hook just fine and never tried to do anything "daring".
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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Wet blanket

What is the purpose of keeping a hot? Scientific research? Species preservation? Egotism?

With that said, if a person must keep a hot, consider a krait. As in, see that hole? My hot is down there somewhere. If they do surface, they are laconic and usually have to be goaded repeatedly to get up the animus to strike and even then are pretty ineffective. And best of all, most of them are common and not endangered so a few thousand slaughtered by amateur hot keepers won't be missed that much.
 

BigJ999

Arachnoknight
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Ive found most people who keep hot's just because they are fascinating in behavior and such also. Many hot snakes are very beautiful Krait's I don't know a copperhead you would at least be able to get anti-venom for Kraits you might not be able to in the states. Although I like Kraits keeping as a first hot seem's kind of hard to me plus their neurotoxins are very powerful but slow acting. However I must say kraits are some of the most beautiful snakes ive seen :) The banded krait being my favorite :) Plus Kraits eat mainly snakes if I remember correctly
 

The Snark

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Just a suggestion. Discounting the adrenaline rush/idiocy of close proximity to peril, consider an Asian Rat snake, Elaphe radiata. They are strong, durable, and very active. Much more show off than most other snakes. Often hyperactive and reputed to be the most bite happy snake in the world. While non venomous, when you get tagged, an almost certainty, you will only need a good antiseptic instead of rare and expensive anti-venin treatment(s). From personal experience, the only snake in the world capable of striking nearly the length of it's body, straight up.
 

kevin91172

Arachnobaron
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I keep a a lot of snakes for a very long time. To me no adrenaline rush type of thing.I have done experiences on a blood pressure/heart rate machine before handling and right after handling hots.

My heart rate and blood pressure always drop afterwards for some reason.

I till everyone who ask about the danger of keeping hots,I have 20 + years of dealing with them,but the snake does not know that or cares
 

pitbulllady

Arachnoking
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I would strongly recommend contacting the local zoos around you that have venomous reptiles and talk to the curator in charge. See if the person will allow you to mentor/volunteer with them. That is how I started and I couldn't think the person enough for giving so much valuable information.

If you must own one without mentoring, I would recommend the following.

Beginner: teaches you how to handle aggressive snakes.

Coachwhip - nothing is a good trainer than an aggressive Masticophis flagellum.

Hognose snake - rear fang. Some people are allergic to the venom, while others aren't.

Intermediate:

Mangrove snake - Boiga dendrophila, mildly venomous, rear-fanged
False Water Cobra - Hydrodynastes gigas, rear-fanged, venon is questionable.

Expert:

Copperheads - demeanor is so calm that there have been cases (my sister is one I know of; she didn't know) when the snake can be free handle without provoking a striking response.
I'm gonna step up and say that I honestly cannot think of anything more foolish, or dangerous in the long run, than "practicing" for venomous snake keeping than getting a so-called "aggressive" non-ven and pretending it's a "hot". That's like driving around in a 1989 Ford Escort to practice for NASCAR racing, essentially. I keep Coachwhips, and Water Snakes, all of which are supposed to be "aggressive", and believe me, I do not EVER think of them in the same light as any venomous snake. I free-handle Coaches and Water Snakes, and they become dog-tame. Don't think I'll try that with a Canebrake or a Mamba, though, no thanks. It's not the same at all, because in your mind, you always know that the Racer or Coachwhip or Water Snake isn't dangerous and can't actually hurt you, so you don't use the same caution with those snakes that should always be used with even a Copperhead or Pygmy. Those non-vens quickly become tame, and defeat the whole point of trying to pretend that they are dangerous, so you get complacent when handling them, something that can prove to be a very costly mistake when you step up to a REAL dangerous snake. I am definitely not an advocate of substituting a harmless snake that happens to have a bad-and undeserved-reputation for "aggression" for a venomous snake at all when it comes to learning to deal with venomous species. A Coachwhip that calmly drapes itself across your arm after a couple days in captivity is not going to prepare anyone for a fat, perpetually ticked-off WDB...whole different ball game there. If someone wants to get started in "hots", most experienced venomous keepers recommend something that can HURT you, but probably won't kill you, and something for which antivenin is readily available in the US, and that usually means a Copperhead. I've kept 'em, and I never let go of the fact that one can ruin my day in an instant, since I've Been There, Done That. I cannot even think of the feistiest Coach in the same light, not even close, because I know that the absolute worst I'll wind up with if it does bite is a few tiny little pin-prick scratches that will be unnoticeable by the next day. The only way to "practice" for keeping a venomous snake is WITH a venomous snake.

pitbulllady
 

kevin91172

Arachnobaron
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yes, I was told by one of my mentors to practice handling a coach whip before I get a cobra.I told him I got allot of experience with them,and they bite me allot and it does not bother me.

Just teach me skills of handling a cobra i would mind very much of getting tagged by one of these.

---------- Post added 10-21-2011 at 10:17 PM ----------

Ok again,another mentor of mine told me to get a venomoid cobra,I told them thats like getting a race care with no engine,so what is
the point?
 

The Snark

Dumpster Fire of the Gods
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Just chased this guy out of the garden. :mad:
You are welcome to it if you want to come collect it.


Re: Pittbulllady, I think I would disagree. Get an Asian rat snake, keep it warm and hungry, then if you manage to avoid getting bit for, say, 6 months, you are ready for a hot. (When warmed up and with the program those things are right out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.)

---------- Post added 10-22-2011 at 01:16 PM ----------

I can give you this much advice in handling cobras from working at the cobra farm: DON"T. The shows they put on are always with cold cobras. With few exceptions, nobody will get near them when they get warmed up and we are talking about people who handle them every day for years. Think about it. Is even the slightest chance of death or permanent extremity deformation and paralysis for life worth the risk?
 
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BigJ999

Arachnoknight
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Sep 1, 2010
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188
A Cape Cobra :) Man your lucky :) I like those although they have some highly toxic venom even for a Naja but they are one of my favorites :)

---------- Post added 10-21-2011 at 10:24 PM ----------

Just chased this guy out of the garden. :mad:
You are welcome to it if you want to come collect it.


Re: Pittbulllady, I think I would disagree. Get an Asian rat snake, keep it warm and hungry, then if you manage to avoid getting bit for, say, 6 months, you are ready for a hot. (When warmed up and with the program those things are right out of a Bugs Bunny cartoon.)

---------- Post added 10-22-2011 at 01:16 PM ----------

Naja siamensis :) Im shocked that guy didn't try to spit at you man you guys have some hot snakes over there
 
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