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First Buthid Suggestions

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by Beary Strange, Jun 11, 2014.

  1. KDiiX

    KDiiX Arachnobaron

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    Well since I've had my last English lesson over ten years ago it might be possible that I have made one or two mistakes in my last post I posted late at night. But if you don't understand it I have to say honestly that it might be your fault. Because using unresponsible instead of irresponsible should be manageable for somebody with a minimum of intelligence.

    I really don't get the point where you think I'm whining :-D I also don't get the point why I should discuss such things private when I think it's a thing that has also some sort of value for the public. The only reason I can imagine after you're last post is that you want to speak without moderation that you can get even more insulting.

    Your lies(which you already paddled back):
    -scorpions can't climb glass
    -scorpions can't climb plastic
    You already agreed that you where very unspecific with that, you may have forgotten that you offered an allegedly 100% secure set up to a beginner but don't mentioned the most important things to keep it secure. What you obviously don't get is that I'm not disagree with your opinion that you can keep them nearly 100% safely. I just disagree with the part that you should recommend every idiot you meet online (belle isn't ment with that it's just a general statement because you actually never know how others behave when they have their Buthid at home) not even to care about how venomous an animal is.

    The photos you mentioned to proof the fact that I saw big scorpions climbing glass and plastic enclosures I won't provide, because I have better things to do with my time than searching for over 6 month old pictures in different Facebook groups etc. But the better question can you proof at all that it's absolutely impossible? Not at all, you just assume something because you don't better know (actually a way of proof teachers don't accept at 5th grade :-D)
     
  2. Beary Strange

    Beary Strange Arachnodemon

    I am inclined to agree with you. When I showed him a Rhopalurus junceus and offered it up as a much more attractive buthid than a Leirus, his was response was that it's "not a deathstalker". :/ All things being equal, I'm much more into arachnids beyond just their looks or reputations than he is (funny thing there, when we go to meet people for transactions, they tend to address him and ignore me...but he couldn't tell you what an apophysis is, or where to locate the femur...or tell you the T in question's scientific name...)-he has an interest and for that I'm grateful...it's much better than being horrified of my collection. Most likely, taking everyone's advice into account and completely agreeing that he definitely wants one for the wrong reasons, I'm not sure if a Leirus will ever end up in my home, but I do also feel much more confident in the "not quite as dangerous" buthid-ownership now...which I do have a genuine interest in.


    Also...wow did it get heated in here fast. Not to wade too far into this, but I don't see going slow or people advising that myself or others do so as being elitist. Those of us on the tarantula side of things often advise people not to buy an OBT or an H.mac first thing and that has nothing to do with believing we are the only ones who can handle one, that it's some symbol of elitism to be aspired to; it's to do with being concerned for the safety of the tarantula and the potential owner.
     
  3. zonbonzovi

    zonbonzovi Creeping beneath you Staff Member

    Mod note

    :puke:

    Speaking of things that became unacceptable after the 5th grade...

    Can we make an attempt to frame our arguments in a way that does not resort to name calling? Try this: pretend for a moment that you're having this discussion with a toothsome 2.13 meter humanoid. He drools blood when he speaks, has hands bigger then your chest and seems volatile and drunk. Would you be discussing this, or any other topic for that matter, in the same fashion? With that in mind, carry on...
     
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  4. gromgrom

    gromgrom Arachnoprince

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    Well the problem with tarantulas is that regardless of calcium or dirt deposit buildup, they can climb, and such their venom and bite, and their ability to escape, becomes a bigger danger.

    If he only wants a scorpion because it is "a" or "the" "deathstalker", he shouldn't keep scorpions. Period. It's all about the mentality and his reason for it, nothing with regards to his experience, although that immature perspective does come from primarily new hobbyists, and it's a very childish one. Remember being a child and begging for a toy only because it had some cool or fierce stigma with it? Point given, comparison made.

    Get him a junceus. Or a colorful Centruroides gracilis. Even if he could handle caring for a deathstalker, his blind childish reason should point you in a different direction.

    That is just my opinion. I dont condone childish behavior.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2014
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  5. KDiiX

    KDiiX Arachnobaron

    I just can agree with gromgrom. Often I see that those people who want that scorpions for some sort of poser reasons are those who are less carefull. Often it's like they seem to wanna be a kind of Torero and live with the danger.
    If I would be in a relationship I wouldn't agree if my partner wants an animal just for one reason that isn't even visible but makes the animal more dangerous. If he would habe been interested in Androctonus sp . or Parabuthus sp. I could have believed that it's for the "right" reason. Because they can look pretty impressive to many people. But the deathstalker is in my point of view a pretty boring scorpion, in looking and behaviour. For example Mesobuthus gibbosus is looking pretty similar but not dangerous to grown up healthy persons. For the Mesobuthus gibbosus no own shows interest... For me it's not understandable that obviously many people just choose their animals because they highly venomous. I don't want to say that everyone who has a deathstalker cares it just to have the most venomous scorpion in care, but I'm pretty sure for many that was the reason.
     
  6. gromgrom

    gromgrom Arachnoprince

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    Completely agree and it's the same on this side of the pond in terms of the mentality of "more dangerous" == "more cooler". Mesobuthus are hard to come by, but LQs are still thriving (somewhat). The US is really bad about the flavor of the month club when it comes to scorpions and will dump and kill the uncool specimen in favor of the new flavor. 2010-2011 was LQs, 2012-2013 was Rhopalurus, and now in 2014... with the hobby struggling I think its C. celebensis and H. franzwerneri...
     
  7. KDiiX

    KDiiX Arachnobaron

    Well over here its nothing else with that sort of trendy species. In my experience it's pretty much about having new rare species over here. When I think 2011 or 2012 H.minusalta (back in the days uncorrectly named as H.saulcyi) came up in the European hobby everyone wanted some. They were pretty expensive for the fact they were imported in very high numbers. Maybe some people bought them for that reason to make the big money. Anyway the interest in that species decreased pretty heavily pretty fast. Nower days H.franzwerneri, H.jalalabadensis and H.buchariensis seem to be in most people favor. I would say at least for the next 9-12 month they still are and than there will come a new species that is interesting and everyone focuses on getting the new species. It's always the same and actually pretty sad, because it seems sometimes as if scorpion keeping and breeding could be compared with collecting rare postage stamps
     
  8. Venom

    Venom Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Elitism is not the reason we recommend beginners start with something that won't kill them for their first mistake. Safety is. Telling someone what to do and what not to do in order to avoid being stung is not enough to prevent all stings. Safety habits take time to become second nature...and until you get those habits ingrained into your interaction with the scorpion/ enclosure, it's a good idea not to raise the stakes so high that a mistake could be life-threatening (or an expensive Emergency Room trip....). Getting a less-toxic buthid is a great way to test your safety measures without putting your life on the line.

    If you manage to safely keep your first buthid for an extended time (i.e., with no stings), then evidently your safety procedures are good enough, and you'll be safe with a more dangerous scorpion. This is common sense. Don't learn to swim by jumping in the middle of the Atlantic. The attitude that thinks: "Well, if I just tell the novice what to do, they'll do it perfectly--I've told them what to do so what could go wrong?" is not how the real world works. Practice makes perfect, so practice being safe before you buy a deadly creature.

    Personally I recommend Hottentotta hottentotta, H. caboverdensis, H. jayakari, Babycurus jacksoni, Buthacus leptochelys nitzani, Buthacus arenicola, Centuroides gracilis as good first buthid scorpions.
     
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  9. Olsin

    Olsin Arachnoknight Old Timer

    When you say "we" are you referring to all scorpion keepers or just the participants of this thread that have shown they agree with the type of sentiments you endorse?......i can't quite make my mind up. Using "we" comes over to me as if you're denying elitism exists within the hobby circuit or you're using an imaginary backup army of supporters to lend more credibility to your endorsements.

    If you in fact meant to say that "you" would advise someone to take the standard road then we don't have a problem....fair enough, that's your opinion and i can respect a persons opinion.
    If on the other hand you are using the royal "we" in an attempt to show that your opinion is the only one admissible then, yeh....i don't think i'm really that interested in whatever your opinion is.

    I could pick your post apart and counter point for point from my own bag of common sense/extreme examples/arguments but what's the point!....truth is, the OP has already demonstrated her mindset and made her opinion clear...arguing with you would just be for the sake of it and quite honestly, i can't be bothered..
    If you reply with anything worthwhile that pips my interest or winds me sufficiently up i might carry on, otherwise this thread died a week and a half ago.
     
  10. BigJ999

    BigJ999 Arachnoknight

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    The thing with any dangerous invert is just be aware of what it is. I have Tityus spp. they are highly venomous but as you said common sense treat it like it can kill or hurt you. Deathies are actually very shy and would rather be left alone although their venom is extremely toxic.
     
  11. Honestly as a person that is new to the hobby, owning only one scorpion that isn't venomous enough to kill you or injure you has taught me to respect the creature. I think that if you are confident enough and have the experience required you still have to be mindful of the fact that anything can happen. You can get stung even if you have taken the correct safety steps, hell I wear leather gloves whenever I try to cup my hadrurus arizonensis. Not because I'm scared but because I have respect for the scorpion.

    Although I have been thinking about getting a buthid as well, and I was thinking that a C. Gracilis was a good choice for a person moving on from the less venomous scorpions, as I do eventually want to buy a p. trans or even the rarer p. villosus. But that is way down the road

    And as a last note, yes I'm new to the hobby. But I think any mindful person should treat any scorpion or tarantula with the respect that it deserves.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  12. darkness975

    darkness975 dream reaper Arachnosupporter

    Right. I have scorpions and tarantulas because I want them, not because I want to "sound cool" for owning them.

    I do want an LQ and A. bicolor some day, but I am not sure if I ever will just because of the fact that it would only take one incident to be potentially dangerous even if all necessary precautions are taken.
     
  13. voldemort

    voldemort Arachnoknight Old Timer

    @ belle

    If possible, if you can get some local buthids, start with them. In this scenario, the requirements in terms of temperature, availability (I always love inexpensive scorpions) and blueprint for a terrarium design will be easier than imported ones. I kept some buthids for some years now because I like the species and not because it is "cool", "fatal" and all those toddler infatuations.

    Species from the Centruroides will be fine, they are quite active, not to mention their willingness to show off their hunting skills. On the imports, B. jacks and R. junceus are nicely colored and patterned. Heck my non - exotic keeper friends (even my wife) say they are fine specimens and just glance at the deadlier and more "macho" stuff (w/c were now sold:))

    The last thing we should consider in keeping these lovely creations is impressing others.
     
  14. CALovett

    CALovett Arachnopeon

    I'm just going to go ahead and throw my hat in the ring for a Centruroides sp.

    Fun scorps, good "trainers" for getting used to handling procedures for hotter scorps.
     
  15. pannaking22

    pannaking22 Arachnoemperor Active Member

    I got a P. imperator, C. gracilis, and H. trilineatus at the same time and didn't really have issues with any of them. That's because I respected all three and was prepared for if something went wrong. I actually had the most trouble from the P. imperator, but that just goes to show that any species can cause problems if not respected or the enclosure isn't properly set up. That one was in the least secure enclosure and it could reach the top corner if it got a head of steam before getting to the wall when I was feeding or doing maintenance. I wasn't stung or pinched or anything, but it served as a good experience and I learned quite a bit about scorpion movement from that. I kept the other two much more cautiously and made sure there wouldn't be any issues with them. Both are interesting in different ways, which makes keeping them interesting as well.

    Someday I would like to get an A. bicolor, but that's going to be after I feel I've gained enough experience. I still classify myself as a beginner or perhaps a step or two above beginner. I doubt I'll keep an Lq because they don't seem to all that exciting, physically or behaviorally. But that's just my opinion :)

    To the OP, you can't go wrong withCentruroides or Hottentotta! Though the B. jacksoni would probably be good as well (I just don't have personal experience with those yet ;) )
     
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2014
  16. wil123

    wil123 Arachnopeon

    Ill be honest with you and I dont care what other people think any one who wants to keep some thing as dangers as a L.quinquestriatus is stupid maybe yull think
    different when you have kids