First Buthid Suggestions

[Beary Strange]

Hi everyone. So my boyfriend and I have been looking to increase our scorpion collection and le boyfriend is really interested in the buthids (particularly he wants to work up to L.quinquestriatus). Now, I previously had a self-imposed "no buthidae" rule and as such, the only scorpions we currently own are P.imperator and A.pococki. I'm extremely nervous about owning a hot scorp, even though I know reasonably that keeping my hands to myself and escape proof containers eliminate much of the need for worry. So with months to plan in mind, does anyone have any suggestions for a good first buthid? Maybe something not "as" hot, a tad bit on the slower, chiller side if there is such a thing. Is there a ladder system like with tarantulas? And any tips for staying safe other than the obvious would be much appreciated. :8o

 

[gromgrom]

Babycurus jacksoni
Centruroides gracilis
Centruroides sculpturatus

 

[Beary Strange]

Babycurus jacksoni
Centruroides gracilis
Centruroides sculpturatus

I've been wanting those top two so that's lucky. Is there any particular reason you recommend them? Venom, speed, etc?

 

[Olsin]

The whole ladder system is a bogus concept created in part by a misrepresentation of scorpions together with the elitist nature of some humans and the insecure nature of some others.
Simple, child like safety procedures are all that are needed to render even the most deadly scorpion inert. Adhering to them negates any differences there may be in any scorpions venom, leaving you free to observe and enjoy them without any worries of being stung.
Scorpions can't climb vertical glass. No scorpions can. Shiny smooth clean plastic is another surface scorpions can't climb. So if a scorpion is in a enclosure of this material and the height of the sides of this enclosure are higher than a scorpion can possibly reach from any point within the enclosure, that scorpion is never coming out of that enclosure unless it's taken out by a human/animal....fit a secure top and you've covered acts of god as well..

If you was a conscientious driver that always kept within the speed limit when you was out driving....what would it matter if your car could drive 100kph or 500kph!?

Secondly. Scorpions don't like being handled anyway so you don't handle them. Moving scorpions around or enclosure maintenance should be done using chopsticks (or similar) and small, high sided containers. Simply place the small container in front of scorpion or if it's square and the enclosure is straight sided then place the container along one of the sides. Use the chopstick to gently usher the scorpion into the container. Flip the container up with the chopstick as soon as the scorpion has entered. You could then use pincers/forceps/tongs to pick the container up. At no time is your hand within reach of the scorpion. Scorpions can't hop/jump/fly so at no point are you in danger.

My advice.....find what scorpions are available to you, decide what kind of environment you'd like to re-create (xeric, semi-humid, mesic) and then research what scorpions of those available to you live/thrive in that environment. Of those scorpions pick whichever appeals based on looks/habitus/size/husbandry.......Their lethality or lack of is just an interesting side note.

 

[Jesse Willems]

Parabuthus transvaalicus! A really beautifull and interesting scorpion, if you ask me..

Use long tongs and glasses if you want. Keep them in a container where they cannot climb out if the lid is off so you can work safely. I bought an epi-pen for them, but that's completely up to you (they are g*ddamn pricey! 150 euro's in the Netherlands and 1 year exp. date..). Also make a 'plan' for yourself on what to do when you get stung. It will most likely get you in severe pain and signs of scorpionism but death is not recorded (only in children and eldery people)

If you have any more questions, please ask them. Good luck with your search!

Edit: @Olsin , I do agree with you that you can keep even the most lethal scorpions relatively safe. However, I would not advise anybody who has never had scorpions before try to cup a deathstalker or something like that. The OP has some experience with scorpions so that's not a problem here

 

[Olsin]

I do agree with you that you can keep even the most lethal scorpions relatively safe. However, I would not advise anybody who has never had scorpions before try to cup a deathstalker or something like that.

You're just buying into the elitist remark i made earlier.......Euscorpius or Leiurus, it's makes no difference as long as the creature comes nowhere near you....and yes, scorps can be fast but they can't jump, hop or fly and if your hands are not at a level it can tag you, then it doesn't matter how fast it is.

I will concede however with regards to morons and retards....these guys shouldn't have anything to do with any animal yet stupid will always be stupid so i guess these guys will always have to learn the hard way...everyone else can just use their common sense and enjoy whatever specie of scorpion they wish to keep.

 

[Jesse Willems]

You're just buying into the elitist remark i made earlier.......Euscorpius or Leiurus, it's makes no difference as long as the creature comes nowhere near you....and yes, scorps can be fast but they can't jump, hop or fly and if your hands are not at a level it can tag you, then it doesn't matter how fast it is.

I will concede however with regards to morons and retards....these guys shouldn't have anything to do with any animal yet stupid will always be stupid so i guess these guys will always have to learn the hard way...everyone else can just use their common sense and enjoy whatever specie of scorpion they wish to keep.

I very much agree with you on this. Just don't let a first timer cup a Leiurus xD

 

[gromgrom]

I've been wanting those top two so that's lucky. Is there any particular reason you recommend them? Venom, speed, etc?

They were my first. Theyre also pretty easy to raise, with jacksoni being a little tricky. They're usually readily available, and not too venomous to really be fearful (unless you have kids/pets/youre allergic to bees). As Olsin said, you can really start with any, but I personally started by moving up slowly to get a read for what to expect from different buthids.

And about the Parabuthus transvaalicus suggestion, they do make an amazingly fun buthid to start with, but until adulthood, are quite frisky and CAN AND WILL make a run for it if your cups are not tall enough to prevent an escape during feeding/watering. I'm not saying you shouldnt start with such a species, but just that they require more responsibility and respect. Babycurus jacksoni and the Centruroides will avoid you, or play dead. Occasionally attempt to sting or escape. I merely suggest them since it gets you slowly introduced to more defensive behaviors that more lethal and frisky buthids and non-buthids exhibit.

Feel free to start with whatever you wish, so long as you treat it with respect and give it proper care!

 

[BAM1082]

I agree 100% with Olsin; with proper caution and foreplanning any species can be kept quite safely.


Jacksoni make a great first aboreal scorpion, quite beautiful after a moult too.

If you prefer a drier species, I would recommend Hottentotta Hottentotta, aggressive, fun to watch species imo.

 

[freedumbdclxvi]

One of my first scorpions was a P trans. Lovely species. I agree that, with scorps, there isn't a real need to do it in steps as you would with spiders.

 

[Beary Strange]

Thank you all for your advice so far, I really appreciate it.

After reading a few suggestions and looking more into the different ones, I think B.jacksoni will be my first buthid. As I said, I know reasonably that precaution should eliminate my worries, but still, having a hot anything is a big step for me. Just letting my guy go out and buy a L.quinquestriatus seems about as reasonable to me as telling a newcomer to buy a S.calceatum straight away, even though I know these are two very different things, threat wise. >w<;;

 

[G. Carnell]

Hey,

Seems like some great advice in this thread!

One final point to make regarding B. jacksoni

This species is often mixed up with Odonturus dentatus, which looks very nearly identical to B. jacksoni apart from a few differences you can see here: http://www.ntnu.no/ub/scorpion-files/o_dentatus.php
This species has caused deaths in children in the past, and therefore might be out of your comfort zone as a first buthid.

basically, please get your Babycurus from someone with a lot of experience/good reviews and who knows a lot about scorpions!


pic of my O. dentatus back when i thought it was B. jacksoni, both really pretty scorpions!

 

[KDiiX]

Like said before some great advice, but also enough to roll my eyes.
I won't quote anyone and anything a refer to because different things went down which annoyed me.
- Allergie to bees says nothing about Allergie to scorpions and other way round
- scorpions can climb glass and plastic under certain circumstances
- their is always a risk having scorpions no matter what's your precaution
- recommending a parthogenetic species like H.hottentotta without even mention that you will get automatically baby's shouldn't be done
- 150€ in Europe for a P.transvaalicus =》somebody fooled you. Over the border in Germany some periods you get them almost for free. 150 € is a pretty valuable price for adult pair of P.villosus which are much rarer then tranvaalicus
- even though you may have the ability to drive a 500kph car as beginner safely, the risk having just a moment where you loose the control over all that power is still there and isn't it questionable to buy a 500kph car if you want to stick to speed limits? So taking it back to scorpions if you don't wanna kill somebody with a sting isn't it questionable to buy a scorpions with the deadliest venom?
- nothing is 100% safe except that we all have to die one day, that always should stay back in your mind, because no matter what you do for precaution some things in life are still uncontrollable. Even it might look 100% safe for many people I have always my 100+1 rule. It doesn't might doesn't matter with a deadly scorpion that 100 people said to you "well its no problem, it's 100% safe" if person 101 got stung and can't tell anyone.
- without having any elitist intentions of course it makes a difference between Euscorpius and Leiurus. It's a big difference. If you make just one mistake you might be done with learning from your mistakes if it was a Leiurus, Euscorpius sp probably aren't able to sting through the most areas of human skin, if a mistake was down with them you might get a small shock and that's all. Btw saying it has something to do with a elitist idea gets me to the question would I care if this elite gets bigger? No, so it is worth think about if being careful and start small is just a reasonable advice. Often I feel like some people just want to take the role of the nice uncle. You all know that nice uncle that gave you sweets before lunch even though your "bad" mother forbid any sweet before lunch just 5 min ago :-D

And finally @belle very good choice for a scorpion you made with the jacksoni. It would be interesting for me to know why your boyfriend wants especially that deathstalker... Most likely the reason and most likely the ONLY reason is because the deathstalker is known as the deadliest scorpion of all. As I said before if you don't wanna kill somebody with the venom isn't it absolutely nonsense to want the scorpion with the highest risk of having at least heavy medical problems after getting stung? I don't wanna offend anyone, but often people feel "cool" owning the deathstalker even though an other scorpion might fit much better to their requirements. So it might be helpful to discuss especially this topic with you boyfriend especially if you having a bad feel with living under the same roof with a deathstalker, because there are so many beautiful scorpions out there from low venomous to high venomous but most of them are more interesting than the deathstalker :-D I would guarantee to anyone if the deathstalker wouldn't that venomous at all nobody would have interest in this species and exact that fact is reason enough to think about if you wanna be just a poser which chooses his animal for stupid reasons or do you wanna keep animals because you love how they look & behave?

 

[Olsin]

Yes yes, scorpions can climb glass if they are very small and the glass is caked up with chalk/residue from misting...but that's just picking bones..A small scorpion wouldn't penetrate your skin anyway so there's no threat there. So generally speaking, scorps can't climb glass/smooth plastic (as long as you keep it clean!) and those that could under specific situations won't pose a threat anyway....The rest of your post was simply you stating your opinion and of course you are entitled to that......Your examples only reinforced your world view (as they were of course meant to) although i can think of just as many examples that reinforce my world view, so who's right??...........we both are!
However the whole discussion is academic...The op has already shown she's ready to adopt the elitist vs insecure philosophy so all your post does is reinforce what she has already decided....Certainly a lot of words to say i agree with you.

And i'm no one's favourite uncle .. I see hysteria all around me and wise guys talking themselves up. I see insecure people being lead by other insecure people and dogma, myth's, lie's, points of view and opinions pasted constantly over as fact and law. I see restrictions and limits being accepted and people becoming unthinking passengers that ride along on whatever mode of reality is being ported as the present correct one......I see all this and i don't like it...By going against the grain i feel that at least i'm doing my bit to retain at least a segment of true individuality.....Plus...i stand by my words. You can keep any specie of scorpion very easily without having to worry about being stung by it. Someone that believed in themselves would probably also quickly come to that conclusion although a more insecure person has a tendency to see dangers everywhere and not trust their ability to deal with them....It's up to each and every one of us to decide who we are! and thankfully, at least a few don't accept the party line and are prepared to do their own thing.
You often paint a good argument and i often find myself agreeing with you, this time though you've generalised to much and chosen weak arguments (everything can be dangerous if you want it to be) as your basis of contention..... I understand what you're saying and i understand your point of view.....I just don't agree with it.

 

[Smokehound714]

Small scorpions can climb glass that has been encrusted with calcium deposits. Lost a few scorplings that way

 

[KDiiX]

That's not just bone picking it's a fact that can't just been ignored and if so this might be your personal security lack that you don't even see. I also saw adult heterometrus or Pandinus sp climbing the silicon of a glass tank, so it's not only an issue with small ones. Plastic container can get scratches by the scorpion trying wall running. Which is just a matter of time until the plastic gets a well climbable border.
By the way even a small scorpion can grow to a big one! Depending on where you life and how your house is climated over the year some scorpions might grow pretty well. I've recently read a post on Facebook where two people reported of a escaped i2 A.australis and i think it was a H.hottentotta i3 . The A.australis was found a couple of weeks later i3 and the H.hottentotta month later after molted several times in the meantime. Both people who where before also saying "scorpions are 100% safe"
Well in theory scorpions are safe but we don't life in any theory!

Ok than you not the favourite uncle you're the dark knight that frees society from the handcuffs of hysteria. Well choosen role :-D
But Mr batman let me tell you one thing just because you're so arrogant you can't admit that even you have the possibility to make mistakes the Argumentation that mistakes with lethal scorpions can be lethal isn't automatically weak. You're absolutely right that you can keep and handle scorpions in theory absolutely safe IF YOU DON'T DO ANY MISTAKES, as long as we're humans we are learning by mistakes so you should always calculate with the mistake even if they absolutely rare. So the only argumentation which is weak is yours because it's basis on the fact that humans don't do mistakes. You say you are annoyed by laws and restrictions many laws and restrictions. Most of them which related to terraristic have only been done because people have made mistakes which had at least a certain publicity. Like being stung by a escaped A.australis (btw you said small scorpions can't harm you i2 A.australis can get through skin, so like many other species, which might be dangerous to children and other pets)

And at the end I don't believe that you understand at all what I'm saying...
Btw are you riding motorcycle?

 

[Galapoheros]

Yeah keep your glass and plastic clean and you should be OK, watch for rough areas in corners too. Plastic may look clean but sometimes there are tiny hard to see scratches that small scorpions can grab on to, I just had a nasty spider get out that way. I see now that KDiiX basically typed the same but will just leave it. My criteria for a "beginner" scorpion is this; "inexpensive, hardy, and not very venomous". I have a slight prob with the word "beginner" though in this context because it doesn't have a whole lot to do with "levels" of experience. It's basically like a trial run to see if you remain interested, take care of it properly and are responsible enough to avoid getting stung and keeping them from getting out. It's kind of sad to me because the beginner label has given some scorpion species an undeserving reputation like what happened to Pandinus imperator. It was labeled as a beginner scorpion and I could see that the percpective of some people was that people that have them were little baby scorpion keepers, but imo that's a bogus point of view. If the deathstalker wasn't so venomous it would be considered a beginner scorpion, as long as they were inexpensive. So to me there is really not much to all that. To me, level of experience better applies to scorpions that are difficult to keep alive and difficult to breed, and as things get figured out there becomes less and less of those species. After saying all that, I guess "beginner" is the best word we have to use.

 

[Olsin]

@KDiiX .. Ok minnie mouse, were getting there where it's soon going to be getting personal...You can blah blah and cry all you like, it doesn't rock my point of view.......Your arguments are nothing but "ifs" with ifs being the arguments of whiners and, yeh, whiners. What ever point of view is raised anyone can always raise an if question or stick to an if point of view....it just how we show our world picture/rule set to others.....so minnie, while you like squeaking around, batman likes getting out there..is one or the other wrong?
I think scorpions can be kept quite easily without any threat if you adhere to a few simple child like principles...You say yes, but humans make mistakes...i say humans should be allowed to make mistakes otherwise we learn nothing....you probably think of some scenario were a child gets stung or a favourite pet gets killed or some other emotion provoking event that re-emphasises your life sucking philosophies...I roll my eyes and walk away.

If you want to carry on whining then do it in PM..

 

[KDiiX]

.i say humans should be allowed to make mistakes otherwise we learn nothing

And that's the point! Never said anything else but you're argumentation just works if you eliminate all possible mistakes. And ignoring the ifs is just unresponsible. If you wanna be unresponsible it's ok for me but why you have to tell beginners just lies? Be unresponsible for your self and nobody cares ;-)
Btw I'm not crying at all but your last post sounds like you getting near to that point getting. At least getting that upset because somebody compared you're wanna be outlaw mentality to a comic heroe tells me that you have a bad lack of humor...
and i still missing an answer if you riding motorcycle?

 

[Olsin]

Hahahaaa....you ARE crying....The more upset you get the worse your English becomes and i didn't understand a word of that...Ok, i got that bit about the ifs and irresponsibility but generally it still read as undecipherable whining.
....and what's all that about you translating opinions as lies (or was you talking about breakfast cereal?)...My core argument here is that you can keep any scorpion safely without fear of envenomation if you adhere to a few simple procedures. That is my opinion, that is not a lie..Scorpions can't climb clean horizontal glass. That is also my opinion although if you have photo documented evidence to the contrary i would be willing to concede with regards to that one specie. I cut the silicon from my enclosures half way up....read it on a forum years ago and it seemed a good idea. I often see others mentioning it now and again but i didn't mention it again in connection with this thread. I also use distilled water for spraying..read that years ago as well...maybe i should have been more specific in my initial posts...point to you whiner but it still reinforces my point that a few simple procedures are all that's needed.
Scorpions can neither climb clean horizontal smooth plastic although again, photo evidence of a series of pics showing a scorp making it's way from bottom to top would open up discussion. Until then it's my opinion that they can't do it although if the plastic was old and full of scratches or there were other marks/encrustations that had built up over time because of a lack of cleaning or awareness then i know small scorps could do it...I'm not talking about amateur, half thought out procedures though, i'm talking about set rules that you adhere to...Keeping plastic (if you really wanted to use plastic) clean by renewal could be a simple procedure
Scorpions can't fly and neither do they hop. I'll risk calling that one a truth although the hopping is maybe a bit fuzzy...I did once see a young xeric scorp move in such a way that it could be described as a hop when it was startled by a prey item. It didn't get of the ground much and it was nothing like a flea hop or anything like that but it still might have been a hop. Still, i'll go with an opinion that a scorp if it can hop, can't hop higher than it's outstretched length.
If you can wipe your tears off the screen and prove any of that is wrong then what can i say....whining pays of after all eh

if on the other hand you can't prove anything then all that leaves is opinion against opinion, the human element.....You don't seem to have the ability to realise that there's many types of people in the world, you don't seem to understand that peoples awareness in relation to the way they see the world and themselves is a huge variable...maybe you live in a small rural area or your local population is homogenic or you're just anal..i don't know...The point is....I don't see the point in carrying this on with you. I invited you to take it over to PM and you rather childishly (and totally in character i might add) carried on....So these are my last words. I'll be looking forward to any photo documentation you might post proving your points of view....(the upcoming whining should be entertaining to )