Experience with Sydney Funnel Web?? Atrax. Robustus

[Chris LXXIX]

Most of the spiders in the hobby were illegally exported and then bred. Do you not get how easy it is to ship spiders out of Australia? Have you ever ordered spiders in the mail?

Sure. Exporting Atrax robustus is one of Australia national hobby.

In fact, not only here in Italy but in almost the entire Europe, I spot those on sale, on the Internet, on a regular basis.
Buy breeding pairs and save some money -.-

 

[bunniebie]

Most of the spiders in the hobby were illegally exported and then bred. Do you not get how easy it is to ship spiders out of Australia? Have you ever ordered spiders in the mail?

oh you're totally right, as an australian who has had to deal with moving animals around the country, i have absolutely no idea how difficult it must be. you've opened up my eyes to my ignorance, praise be.

 

[SingaporeB]

You should've read a bit closer mate. The person who said that was saying that funnel web spiders are not rare in Australia in certain areas. Never did the person mention it being common or ever being present in the U.S.. It is very, very hard to even illegally export animals from Australia it seems as if it were easier we would have MUCH more Australian species.

Is that so?

So how come Coastal and Inland Taipan snakes are bred and sold here in the USA(most venomous in the world, about $1,000 each)?

I saw a three foot Lace monitor for sale at a reptile show 18 months back for $1,100. That's one of my favorite monitor species, I know what they look like.

The reptile industry is over flowing with Australian species.

What about Australian tarantulas?

Selenocosmia Crassipes Queensland whistling tarantula

Phlogiellus Goliath Queensland Goliath

These two have been bred in the USA for at least a decade. I've seen both slings and sexed females for sale.

 

[Stugy]

Is that so?

So how come Coastal and Inland Taipan snakes are bred and sold here in the USA(most venomous in the world, about $1,000 each)?

I saw a three foot Lace monitor for sale at a reptile show 18 months back for $1,100. That's one of my favorite monitor species, I know what they look like.

The reptile industry is over flowing with Australian species.

What about Australian tarantulas?

Selenocosmia Crassipes Queensland whistling tarantula

Phlogiellus Goliath Queensland Goliath

These two have been bred in the USA for at least a decade. I've seen both slings and sexed females for sale.

Should've also bolded the "it seems" too. I put that there to show that I hadn't payed much attention so that's what it seemed to me. If the hobby was "overflowing" with Australian species, I'd have my spider-hunting scorpion and other Australian scorpion species right now. I hadn't payed much attention (if any) to the reptile hobby since I have little to no interest in reptiles though I find it rather surprising that people actually keep and sell taipans. At the same time I shouldn't be so surprised since apparently there are a few hobbyists in the U.S. with black mambas.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Is that so?

So how come Coastal and Inland Taipan snakes are bred and sold here in the USA(most venomous in the world, about $1,000 each)?

I saw a three foot Lace monitor for sale at a reptile show 18 months back for $1,100. That's one of my favorite monitor species, I know what they look like.

The reptile industry is over flowing with Australian species.

What about Australian tarantulas?

Selenocosmia Crassipes Queensland whistling tarantula

Phlogiellus Goliath Queensland Goliath

These two have been bred in the USA for at least a decade. I've seen both slings and sexed females for sale.

I don't have a clue about the Aussie animals you mentioned, available (if they are) in the hobby/trade so I will talk about A.robustus, now.

Ask yourself this. I have reasons to believe that in USA, and in Europe even more, there's people that wish to own Atrax robustus, and badly.

Among those potentially keepers, of course, a lot (if not majority) are on the experienced level so not 'wannabe'.

Now my opinion about said Mygalomorphae is that (leaving the issues about the potentially lethal venom aside for a minute) bugger at the end of the day isn't too much hard to care (nor defensive more) than the average S.calceatum (screw the fact it's arboreal, watch defensiveness) or Selenocosmia aruana etc

'Key factor' and the whole Atrax robustus 'Pathos' is the venom... no matter how much skilled "you" are, a wrong move, and you're done. Lights out.

Now since the antivenom (or whatever the correct English name is for that) exists, yes, but readily available somewhere near Sydney (lol) you can understand why that spider isn't available outside the island (aside, I think, for very rare episodes involving arachno/labs Docs pundits or sumthin).

Think about a bite in Italy, Romania, Poland etc lol... before the antivenom shot (sometimes you need more than one) arrives (I hardly doubt in Italian hospitals is available) you're already dead.

Yeah, sure... Sicarius hahni and the likes of those are potentially lethal as well (probably... because who knows for real, one moment?) yet still in the hobby available but A.robustus is an Australian one and those fellas living at the end of the world (the Aussie) are serious about those stuff.

The last thing they want is to ship and deliver A.robustus antivenom packages worldwide I bet :-s

 

[bunniebie]

Is that so?

So how come Coastal and Inland Taipan snakes are bred and sold here in the USA(most venomous in the world, about $1,000 each)?

I saw a three foot Lace monitor for sale at a reptile show 18 months back for $1,100. That's one of my favorite monitor species, I know what they look like.

The reptile industry is over flowing with Australian species.

What about Australian tarantulas?

Selenocosmia Crassipes Queensland whistling tarantula

Phlogiellus Goliath Queensland Goliath

These two have been bred in the USA for at least a decade. I've seen both slings and sexed females for sale.

okay, so did a lot more digging around. if you get the right export permits, you can export aus species. steve nunn exported a number of breeding pairs of aus tarantulas back in the day, and that's likely how taipans and monitors are in the u.s (why anyone would want a fierce snake is beyond me though, that thing will DROP you.) export for explicitly commercial purposes is regulated to a few species such as bearded dragons, so it they aren't on that reg list then they've likely been shipped out under a different purpose (eg. education, household pet) or illegally trafficked. the law may have differed a bit when nunn did it, or when reptiles were exported out, i'm not sure. this is why the u.s. don't have newer varieties though, like selenotypus sp. "yellow/banana" and selenotypus sp. "platinum" (besides "platinum" being in the market for about 4 months). there's apparently little commercial market to warrant trying to export a new batch due to aus varieties being regarded as "drab", and there being few captive breeding programs, so i doubt y'all will see varieties outside of what nunn exported.

'Key factor' and the whole Atrax robustus 'Pathos' is the venom... no matter how much skilled "you" are, a wrong move, and you're done. Lights out.

Now since the antivenom (or whatever the correct English name is for that) exists, yes, but readily available somewhere near Sydney (lol) you can understand why that spider isn't available outside the island (aside, I think, for very rare episodes involving arachno/labs Docs pundits or sumthin).

Think about a bite in Italy, Romania, Poland etc lol... before the antivenom shot (sometimes you need more than one) arrives (I hardly doubt in Italian hospitals is available) you're already dead.

Yeah, sure... Sicarius hahni and the likes of those are potentially lethal as well (probably... because who knows for real, one moment?) yet still in the hobby available but A.robustus is an Australian one and those fellas living at the end of the world (the Aussie) are serious about those stuff.

The last thing they want is to ship and deliver A.robustus antivenom packages worldwide I bet :-s

this is likely a big contributor. a. robustus anti-venom is also tricky to keep restocked as they only live for about a year (males at least, not sure if females live longer), so you need to keep catching them and milking them to keep stocks up. on this note it'd be difficult to export much of the anti-venom outside of aus as we have a limited supply here as is.

 

[jigalojey]

Although extremely rare, they're certainly in America via illegal imports...however good luck getting someone who owns one to ever admit that to you.

 

[Chris LXXIX]

Although extremely rare, they're certainly in America via illegal imports...however good luck getting someone who owns one to ever admit that to you.

Nah. I mean, also yes, because everything is possible in life, one moment. For that matter, I've heard speculations about those kept in certain Europeans house since forever, but zero facts, only rumors.

And why, IMO? Simple, because didn't happened. I think it's a 'legend'.

But assuming someone ended "I don't know how" with an Atrax robustus, let's say in Hungary, Poland, or what else... and he admit that (the keeping, not how he managed to get the bugger) well, Australian authorities can take actions against him for that, or they can do nothing?

 

[Tanner Dzula]

Although extremely rare, they're certainly in America via illegal imports...however good luck getting someone who owns one to ever admit that to you.

this is a big part of it too.
there ARE a few people with them here in the states. but NONE of them are going to just get on here and post about it, let alone post an add selling them.

1. unless you work for a educational/research facility, its illegal to have them brought here without the right permits.
2. if you paid for the right permits, you would be paying a LOT of money for a spider you might get a year or 2 out of.
3. the venom. IF you get bit, and there is a larger chance when dealing with a spider you dont already have experience with, such as a sydney funnel web if youve never actually been to aussie and seen them, like stated, you are pretty much done. atleast with most tarantulas, unless you have a severe allergic reaction, you are most likely not going to get a lethal bite. thats completely difference with a sydney funnel web.
4. AGAIN, because of how illegal it is, and how strict Aussie is, even if the few people that have them did breed them, it would be a lot harder to breed/sell effectively without having a lot of questions asked. the second you admit to having a sydney funnel web and it being a First generation here in the stated(without it already being from a Captive bred specimen) you are going to have a lot of discomfort in explaining where your export/import license ran off too, and will probably start to really sweat when you find out what kind of fines you can be facing, for a spider that will already have passed away at this point(especially if the specimen you receive is already a mature specimen)

 

[Chris LXXIX]

there ARE a few people with them here in the states.

How you can be so sure about that? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not here saying that you're wrong or that's not true, but still, aside for rumors and whatnot, unless you know personally someone with one (and viewed a specimen first hand) all of those (Europe included) are only rumors, speculations.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

How you can be so sure about that? I mean, don't get me wrong, I'm not here saying that you're wrong or that's not true, but still, aside for rumors and whatnot, unless you know personally someone with one (and viewed a specimen first hand) all of those (Europe included) are only rumors, speculations.

i can be fairly sure. i can in all honesty speak for only 1 hobbyist here in the states that has(had) one, but i can confirm that it was one. now the means and methods of getting such a species i can assure you are All a mystery to me and i wouldn't even know where to begin on getting one to the states here, but i can confirm that it is(or at one point "was") possible to do so.

unfortunately it did not live very long, but i did have the very lucky opportunity to see a Male specimen of the funnel webs here in the states, and they really are an impressive species. it was only for a few moments that i had to look at it, and for obvious reasons I'm not going to say who's it was, but considering this was somebody who has been able to get their hands on several lesser known/documented species(more reptiles then inverts, but his collection is primarily anything rare/hard to get here in the states) that would require similar if not harder methods to obtain, i dont doubt for a second his authenticity.

 

[jigalojey]

I personally know of people who have owned them and I know Zoos in America who have had them handed in to them. They're more common in Europe, still extremely rare though.

 

[bunniebie]

hm, i stand corrected. gonna suck real bad for any of those owners if they get bit though.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

hm, i stand corrected. gonna suck real bad for any of those owners if they get bit though.

oh yea, i can not imagine getting bit and realizing the closest anti-venom is 10k+ miles away.

 

[The Snark]

Just a little tidbit from left field. "You must attend." This is the physicians take on the Hippocratic oath. Without regard for any circumstance whatsoever, you must undertake any and all life saving measures at your disposal.
A person gets wheeled into the ER in the US with an Atrax bite verified. ER POD gets on the phone. A few minutes later a courier is dispatched and antivenin is arranged and transport started. 'Probably going to die anyway' is ignored by the Hippocratic oath.

All the noise aside, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess what the ER bill is going to be, regardless of patient prognosis and outcome.

 

[Tanner Dzula]

Just a little tidbit from left field. "You must attend." This is the physicians take on the Hippocratic oath. Without regard for any circumstance whatsoever, you must undertake any and all life saving measures at your disposal.
A person gets wheeled into the ER in the US with an Atrax bite verified. ER POD gets on the phone. A few minutes later a courier is dispatched and antivenin is arranged and transport started. 'Probably going to die anyway' is ignored by the Hippocratic oath.

All the noise aside, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to guess what the ER bill is going to be.

i can agree that the ER bill alone would be, well, incredible.

i can only imagine the scene of somebody here in the states, having been bit by a non-native spider and going through all the pain and the process of it all. getting treatment and anti-venom, only to then have a minor heart-attack upon receiving the, what i would imagine would be, very substantial medical bill after that.

 

[The Snark]

The Hippocratic oath supersedes all in the medical world. Even if it flies in the face of logic and rational thinking.

Spoiler

Reported to me. A bus full of fire fighters, Mt. Lassen. A tree fell on the bus. The driver was crushed, his entire upper body inaccessible. A physician was present. He and parameds were able to get a femoral pulse of the driver.
In the bus were four other severely injured persons. They went unattended as the physician directed all operations to the driver. Two of the injured went into critical as manpower was diverted to the rescue of the driver.
Had the physician not been in attendance a paramed would have used triage and written the driver off to attend to the other injured.
The Hippocratic oath is absolute and inviolable. Atrax bite = antivenin.

 

[RTTB]

Kinda human nature to want what you can't have or maybe shouldn't have. I guess one has to answer what's the reason for wanting one of these spiders. I suspect the "thrill" of having such a dangerous spider is an attraction as well just like with snakes and scorpions.

 

[The Snark]

Kinda human nature to want what you can't have or maybe shouldn't have. I guess one has to answer what's the reason for wanting one of these spiders. I suspect the "thrill" of having such a dangerous spider is an attraction as well just like with snakes and scorpions.

Staring at that post with a jaded skeptical eye. And staring some more. Nawww. I've been shot at and missed and **** at and hit so many times I'm amazed I can count 10 on my fingers. Fill my world with elderly de-clawed fluffy bunnys, please.

 

[AusBugKid]

Frequently found around my house. People often mistake our "house spider" for them because *eek black spider* but this is not what I'm talking about. In the rainy season they leave their burrows for safer homes, and occasionally decide my house is good enough. Have yet to be bitten, but have had 3 raise their legs and bare fangs. More than enough to make me evict them, way into the bush behind my house.