Excavator clay! Who has used it and what did you think?

[PhilMcWonder]

I hear scorpions love it but I have never used the stuff.
What do you guys think of it?

 

[BoyFromLA]

I recently set up an enclosure with cocofiber and excavator clay mix, so far my scorpion seems to like it way better than just cocofiber.

 

[Sarkhan42]

As long as it's mixed with something else (I use sand) it seems to work fabulously for burrows.

 

[BrokenLegBaboon]

Would this be safe on Ts too?

 

[Blackwind]

I really like it. I did notice though that you want to use a fairly low concentration of it. Personally I use a 70% sand 30% excavator clay mix. moisten it, pack it down VERY lightly (I found packing down too much will make it harden like a rock) and let it dry. My Hadrurus arizonensis and Smeringurus mesaensis are having a riot building their tunnels with it. A good hint I think I read here as well is to make multiple thin layers and let them dry between layers, otherwise you could be waiting weeks for it to dry totally.

Would this be safe on Ts too?

I couldn't say for desert species, but with a tropical species, due to the amount of humidity and how fine the particles are I'd be concerned about it getting stuck to and potentially hardening on the tarantula. That's more of a personal theory though, I very well could be wrong

 

[BrokenLegBaboon]

I really like it. I did notice though that you want to use a fairly low concentration of it. Personally I use a 70% sand 30% excavator clay mix. moisten it, pack it down VERY lightly (I found packing down too much will make it harden like a rock) and let it dry. My Hadrurus arizonensis and Smeringurus mesaensis are having a riot building their tunnels with it. A good hint I think I read here as well is to make multiple thin layers and let them dry between layers, otherwise you could be waiting weeks for it to dry totally.


I couldn't say for desert species, but with a tropical species, due to the amount of humidity and how fine the particles are I'd be concerned about it getting stuck to and potentially hardening on the tarantula. That's more of a personal theory though, I very well could be wrong

Hmmm wouldn’t the scorpion be at the same risk of getting stuck if a tarantula can be stuck on it too?

 

[PhilMcWonder]

Would excavator clay be recommended for a Pandinus imperator?

 

[Blackwind]

Hmmm wouldn’t the scorpion be at the same risk of getting stuck if a tarantula can be stuck on it too?

Honestly, I couldn't say for certain. I've only used it for desert species (Hadrurus arizonensis and Smeringurus mesaensis) where they are kept at very low humidity and the substrate has already "solidified". So it never really has the chance to get wet and clump. It could very well be safe for tarantulas, that would just be my possible concern for it though. Hopefully someone else can share first hand experience in that situation though.

 

[kingofall]

Would excavator clay be recommended for a Pandinus imperator?

Honestly I don't think you really need it with a species like this. For P. Imperator I would recommend you use moist coco fiber (like to the point that it sticks together when you squeeze it but not so much that it drips water). But i'm not really an expert so i'm sure somebody else on this forum could help you better on this.

Edit: And certainly not just plain excavator clay.

 

[Vanisher]

I have used clay many times for burrowing spiders! I bought it from a cheramic company if i remember correctly! It worked really well!

 

[AP34]

Honestly I don't think you really need it with a species like this. For P. Imperator I would recommend you use moist coco fiber (like to the point that it sticks together when you squeeze it but not so much that it drips water). But i'm not really an expert so i'm sure somebody else on this forum could help you better on this.

Edit: And certainly not just plain excavator clay.

I can't remember what article it was from, but I read that some populations of Pandinus imperator often burrowed in soil with high clay content. I use ""organic"" potting soil (normal potting soil should be fine, but I don't like the look of vermiculite/perlite) because I have live plants in the tank and I like the look of soil over cocofiber. I wish I had mixed in clay because their burrows can collapse relatively easy if just built with either soil or coconut fiber substrate. But, the type of substrate isn't too big of a concern as long as humidity, temperature, and amount of substrate are suitable. I have a few Heterometrus swammerdami that dug under the false bottom in my tank and are totally fine living on wet sand. Burrowing takes a lot of energy for scorpions to do, so it's always a good idea to start burrows for them to get them to dig in the spot you'd like them to.

 

[Dry Desert]

I can't remember what article it was from, but I read that some populations of Pandinus imperator often burrowed in soil with high clay content. I use ""organic"" potting soil (normal potting soil should be fine, but I don't like the look of vermiculite/perlite) because I have live plants in the tank and I like the look of soil over cocofiber. I wish I had mixed in clay because their burrows can collapse relatively easy if just built with either soil or coconut fiber substrate. But, the type of substrate isn't too big of a concern as long as humidity, temperature, and amount of substrate are suitable. I have a few Heterometrus swammerdami that dug under the false bottom in my tank and are totally fine living on wet sand. Burrowing takes a lot of energy for scorpions to do, so it's always a good idea to start burrows for them to get them to dig in the spot you'd like them to.

Clay mix is really only suitable for arid/desert species then it should only be 70% soil mix 30% clay. If you want a good soil mix for tropical species add cactus soil mix to Coco fibre/soil mix.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Would this be safe on Ts too?

If it’s an arid species it should work fine. Even if it sets hard they should be able to manage, I’ve seen videos of a species from arid Australia a guy was keeping on rock hard clay soil and it was perfectly happy to chew a burrow into it

 

[darkness975]

I hear scorpions love it but I have never used the stuff.
What do you guys think of it?

You need to mix it. Straight excavator clay on its own is not good.

 

[AP34]

Clay mix is really only suitable for arid/desert species then it should only be 70% soil mix 30% clay. If you want a good soil mix for tropical species add cactus soil mix to Coco fibre/soil mix.

Pandinus imperator are frequently found in clay-rich termite mounds in their natural habitat. I don't know where the idea that clay is only for desert species. Clay is found in soils in most ecosystems. I wouldn't use it by itself, but it's useful to increase the suitability of the substrate for burrowing.

 

[Dry Desert]

Pandinus imperator are frequently found in clay-rich termite mounds in their natural habitat. I don't know where the idea that clay is only for desert species. Clay is found in soils in most ecosystems. I wouldn't use it by itself, but it's useful to increase the suitability of the substrate for burrowing.

The only time you will possibly find any scorpion in a termite mound is if the mound is old and has been vacated by termites long ago, then a scorpion would possibly move in , although I can't imagine any scorpion feeling secure in a vast laberinth of tunnels.
If you want to quote articles have a look at THE SOIL TRIANGLE paper where you will see most soils are made up of a mixture of Sand, Silt, and Clay mix with most soils being either Sand Loam or Clay Loam - very low percentage are High Clay.

 

[AP34]

The only time you will possibly find any scorpion in a termite mound is if the mound is old and has been vacated by termites long ago, then a scorpion would possibly move in , although I can't imagine any scorpion feeling secure in a vast laberinth of tunnels.
If you want to quote articles have a look at THE SOIL TRIANGLE paper where you will see most soils are made up of a mixture of Sand, Silt, and Clay mix with most soils being either Sand Loam or Clay Loam - very low percentage are High Clay.

I found two papers describing several sightings of Pandinus and Heterometrus species inside termite burrows. Regardless of the exact percentage of clay content in either loamy soil or termite burrows, they do contain clay. Clay exists in varying quantities in soil suitable for burrowing in the ecosystems where Pandinus and Heterometrus species are found. I have more examples that I found, too. I'm not recommending using pure clay as a substrate in a terrarium, rather stating that mixing in a conservative amount with either potting soil or cocofiber will improve the plasticity and cohesive properties of the substrate for Pandinus and Heterometrus species.

 

[Dry Desert]

View attachment 299715 I found have two papers describing several sightings of Pandinus and Heterometrus species inside termite burrows. Regardless of the exact percentage of clay content in either loamy soil or termite burrows, they do contain clay. Clay exists in varying quantities in soil suitable for burrowing in the ecosystems where Pandinus and Heterometrus species are found. View attachment 299716 View attachment 299717 I have more examples that I found, too. I'm not recommending using pure clay as a substrate in a terrarium, rather stating that mixing in a conservative amount with either potting soil or cocofiber will improve the plasticity and cohesive properties of the substrate for Pandinus and Heterometrus species.

Your last paragraph is all anyone else on this forum is saying - no need to go all around the houses to come up with the same conclusion other members have stated.

 

[AP34]

Your last paragraph is all anyone else on this forum is saying - no need to go all around the houses to come up with the same conclusion other members have stated.

You said "The only time you will possibly find any scorpion in a termite mound is if the mound is old and has been vacated by termites long ago, then a scorpion would possibly move in , although I can't imagine any scorpion feeling secure in a vast laberinth of tunnels." and "Clay mix is really only suitable for arid/desert species then it should only be 70% soil mix 30% clay. If you want a good soil mix for tropical species add cactus soil mix to Coco fibre/soil mix."
Besides, it took me about ten minutes to find some examples of termite mounds using the search function in documents I had saved and learned more about the locations where certain species were found in the wild. I don't think I really wasted much time.

 

[Dry Desert]

You said "The only time you will possibly find any scorpion in a termite mound is if the mound is old and has been vacated by termites long ago, then a scorpion would possibly move in , although I can't imagine any scorpion feeling secure in a vast laberinth of tunnels." and "Clay mix is really only suitable for arid/desert species then it should only be 70% soil mix 30% clay. If you want a good soil mix for tropical species add cactus soil mix to Coco fibre/soil mix."
Besides, it took me about ten minutes to find some examples of termite mounds using the search function in documents I had saved and learned more about the locations where certain species were found in the wild. I don't think I really wasted much time.

If you wish to keep quoting " Parrot - Fashion " from documents that are probably outdated and never proven to be 100% accurate in the first place - your prerogative -