Euathlus sp. red fasting + abdomen shrinking

Thekla

Arachnoprince
Joined
Oct 13, 2017
Messages
1,878
Just hijacking this thread to say that my 1" sling ate a small cricket today - after 51 days of fasting with no moult in between. YAY!!! :p
At least I think it ate the cricket as I can't find it anywhere in the enclosure... :rolleyes:
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
UPDATE: Last night I discovered my poor girl sitting in an awkward position. I opened the enclosure to check on her and found her to be very weak--she hardly moves, and when she does, her movements are lethargic, weak, and uncoordinated. These don't appear to be DKS-like jerky movements, but rather slow and almost "drunk."

She has not been exposed to any extreme temps or chemicals, and she is with all of my other tarantulas, many of which are small slings that are doing just fine. It's heartbreaking that this isn't happening to my absolute favorite tarantula... she's still skinny, and there's no way it's premolt. She looks practically the same as she did in the original photos I posted. I've checked her mouthparts, and all looks well. She's refused food now since mid-December (and was EXTREMELY picky when she did eat), and I worry that she isn't even strong enough to overpower prey. I've moved her to a deli cup with a water dish and a bit of coco fiber.

Has anyone else ever seen anything like this? It's as if she's starving herself to death. I'm not giving up on her, but I'm heartbroken and not at all optimistic...
 
Last edited:

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
Has anyone else ever seen anyone like this? It's as if she's starving herself to death. I'm not giving up on her, but I'm heartbroken and not at all optimistic...
Have you tried to syringe feed her? I would buy a very soft prey item, a silk worm or something soft like that, crush it up and add water. Suck it up in a syringe, flip her on her back, and drop droplets of the mixture right onto her mouth parts. You would need to do it slowly and wait until you see the droplet being sucked up. The same thing that you would do for dehydration, but with a bug soup mixture.
It sounds as if she isn't going to give you too much trouble flipping her over at this point.
Has she actually eaten since her last moult? Do you still have her exuvia around? Is there a chance that her stomach did not moult out properly?
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
Have you tried to syringe feed her? I would buy a very soft prey item, a silk worm or something soft like that, crush it up and add water. Suck it up in a syringe, flip her on her back, and drop droplets of the mixture right onto her mouth parts. You would need to do it slowly and wait until you see the droplet being sucked up. The same thing that you would do for dehydration, but with a bug soup mixture.
It sounds as if she isn't going to give you too much trouble flipping her over at this point.
Has she actually eaten since her last moult? Do you still have her exuvia around? Is there a chance that her stomach did not moult out properly?
She has not molted with me, unfortunately, but she has eaten in my care (albeit VERY infrequently). If not for that, I would assume it was her stomach.

I've tried that for possible dehydration, though she doesn't appear dehydrated, but not with food. Has anyone managed to see success with that method? I've seen it suggested as a possibility many times, but I've never actually seen anyone report the outcome. Of course I'm willing to try ANYTHING at this point, so I'll give it a whirl. She's never taken prey that was fully prekilled (just near death), but maybe she'd take the mixture if it was placed on her mouthparts... But can she even physically do that without the mixture undergoing the external digestive process? That's something that's always confused me a bit (unless that process is literally just liquification?).
 

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
Has anyone managed to see success with that method? I've seen it suggested as a possibility many times, but I've never actually seen anyone report the outcome. Of course I'm willing to try ANYTHING at this point, so I'll give it a whirl. She's never taken prey that was fully prekilled (just near death), but maybe she'd take the mixture if it was placed on her mouthparts... But can she even physically do that without the mixture undergoing the external digestive process? That's something that's always confused me a bit (unless that process is literally just liquification?).
I have known more than one person to successfully use that method to feed a tarantula who lost both fangs. All they needed to do was keep the tarantula alive until their next moult and they had their fangs back. It might not be successful in this case, because it is unknown what is causing her to decline, but it is worth a try.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
I have known more than one person to successfully use that method to feed a tarantula who lost both fangs. All they needed to do was keep the tarantula alive until their next moult and they had their fangs back. It might not be successful in this case, because it is unknown what is causing her to decline, but it is worth a try.
Right. I'm worried she's so weak that she might not even react to something being placed on her mouth, but I'll try it in a bit. Just have to go pic up some waxworms for her! If she could just gain bit of weight and get some nutrients in her, I have a feeling she'll get stronger... but that might be wishful thinking.

How long would you suggest waiting for her to suck the food down? I always worry the line between not giving them enough time to eat/drink and having them inverted for so long that it's just prolonging the stress.
 

darkness975

Latrodectus
Arachnosupporter +
Joined
Aug 31, 2012
Messages
5,639
I admit this thread was a read to get through. Hope the spider makes it.

Odd circumstances.
 

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
How long would you suggest waiting for her to suck the food down?
I've never had to do it myself, but, in her condition, I would guess that she would suck it down almost immediately. I would wait a minute or so.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
IMG_4447.JPG IMG_4449.JPG IMG_4454.JPG
I've never had to do it myself, but, in her condition, I would guess that she would suck it down almost immediately. I would wait a minute or so.
Trying it a day we speak, but she doesn't seem to be sucking much of anything down. She does seem to be putting up more of a fight that I'd expected, which is a good sign, but it's still pretty minimal. Her legs do seem a bit stronger than yesterday, but not by much.

I've also noticed that her abdomen is dragging... if i lift her without fully supporting it, it hangs so the pedicel is very visible. I'm not sure if that's just a sign of her general weakness or something more. I've only ever seen that in mature males near death, and she's definitely a female.

Here are a couple of photos of her. You may be able to see the hanging/dragging abdomen in some (hopefully)
 

miss moxie

Arachnoprince
Joined
Jun 13, 2014
Messages
1,804
She's still not worryingly skinny so I wouldn't worry about her starving. It's -plausible- that she's getting lethargic because a molt is approaching.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
She's still not worryingly skinny so I wouldn't worry about her starving. It's -plausible- that she's getting lethargic because a molt is approaching.
I'm not sure why she always looks chubbier on photos, but she's quite skinny... I guess because the photos make setae appear like solid mass. But she's about half the size I'd expect from a tarantula about to molt, and twice as lethargic (and stumbling--her steps are slow and clumsy). Her inability to lift her abdomen is now what's worrying me most. You're correct that starving may not be the issue, but even if she was in premolt right now, it doesn't seem like she'd even have the strength to get through a molt successfully.

It did seem like she took down just a tiny bit of the slurry, but that may have just been it spreading into the hairs surrounding her mouth... but boy do I hope she did.
 
Last edited:

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
Here are a couple of photos of her. You may be able to see the hanging/dragging abdomen in some (hopefully)
They are pretty flexible and the abdomen will droop in both directions easily if you don't support it. When you watch them, they sometimes pull their abdomen under them to web, so it is perpendicular to their carapace. It goes the other way like that too - my Avicularia metallica lets hers droop sometimes when she is face down on the side of her enclosure. I don't think it is a sign of anything being wrong on it's own, someone can correct me on that if I am wrong.
She actually looks better than the original photos you posted. If you still have some soup left, put it in a very shallow dish and make the dish flush with the substrate, so she doesn't have to lift herself into it, and see if she eats it on her own.
 

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
I'm not sure why she always looks chubbier on photos, but she's quite skinny... about half the size I'd expect from a tarantula about to molt, and twice as lethargic (and stumbling--her steps are slow and clumsy). Her inability to lift her abdomen is now what's worrying me most. You're correct that starving may not be the issue, but even if she was in premolt right now, it doesn't seem like she'd even have the strength to get through a molt successfully.
It did seem like she took down just a tiny bit of the slurry, but that may have just been it spreading into the hairs surrounding her mouth... but boy do I hope she did.
They can get extremely lethargic before moulting. She does look dull and black, but I am not sure if that is just the photo. Leave the soup in there and maybe wait for a while to see if she moults. Make sure she always has fresh water.
This species, according to some people who have had them a long time, tend to fast over the winter quite often. My female has just moulted, so it is not unheard of for them to do it at this time of year. She might be a bit on the slim side, but I don't find her to be what I would call 'skinny'.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
They can get extremely lethargic before moulting. She does look dull and black, but I am not sure if that is just the photo. Leave the soup in there and maybe wait for a while to see if she moults. Make sure she always has fresh water.
This species, according to some people who have had them a long time, tend to fast over the winter quite often. My female has just moulted, so it is not unheard of for them to do it at this time of year. She might be a bit on the slim side, but I don't find her to be what I would call 'skinny'.
She's actually more of a dull gray and has been since I've had her. I suppose it's possible that she could be in premolt, but I've just never had a tarantula look this clumsy/drunk even in heavy premolt.

She really does look fatter in all the photos than she does in person (maybe because the setae look more like solid mass?), and I guess part of what's concerning me with her dragging her abdomen is that she doesn't even move her spinerettes at all, making it seem like she has less control of it. Plus I didn't want to make it hang too much just for a photo for a photo, but it really just hangs there loosely. Perhaps it's nothing to worry about, but it's a marked difference from her usual movements, as well as those of all my other tarantulas.

Well I definitely hope you're all right! I just don't know why a tarantula in premolt would have a shrinking abdomen as opposed to an expanding one. She's also been fasting for the majority of the time I've had her, even in summer, only taking small meals every once in a while. But this has been her longest fast thus far.

If she's just in premolt, she's officially the most dramatic tarantula on earth... Fingers crossed that that's the case!
 

johnny quango

Arachnoknight
Old Timer
Joined
May 17, 2013
Messages
260
She sounds like she's going to moult at anytime, My adult female behaved the exact same way right before she moulted now she's fine.
Don't worry about the infrequent feeding some do that including mine. Also unlike G pulchra that turns brown before a moult these actually do turn grey in colour
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
IMG_4456.JPG This is a slightly better photo.

She's standing less awkwardly today, but still has difficulty moving and extremely delayed reactions to anything. You can see the hairs a bit better that make her look a little fatter.

Hopefully you're all right! I'm just not sure why she'd have a drunken gait rather than just a lethargic one.
 

Attachments

Vanessa

Grammostola Groupie
Joined
Mar 12, 2016
Messages
2,423
This species has a slightly elongated abdomen, unlike some of the other SA species who are very round. The photo that I am judging on mostly is the one that you have taken more from the side. Her abdomen still looks plump from the side shot. In really skinny tarantulas, the abdomen will look very flat and hers doesn't in that photo.
I saw a photo recently and, while the LP definitely looked far too skinny from the top photo, the side photo showed an extremely sunken, flat looking, abdomen. Your girl is not looking like that by a long shot.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
This species has a slightly elongated abdomen, unlike some of the other SA species who are very round. The photo that I am judging on mostly is the one that you have taken more from the side. Her abdomen still looks plump from the side shot. In really skinny tarantulas, the abdomen will look very flat and hers doesn't in that photo.
I saw a photo recently and, while the LP definitely looked far too skinny from the top photo, the side photo showed an extremely sunken, flat looking, abdomen. Your girl is not looking like that by a long shot.
Well that's good to hear! I agree that her abdomen doesn't look shriveled, but I guess I've always attributed that more to dehydration rather than nutrition.

Here's hoping she's just a drama queen... if she makes it to/through a molt, maybe she'll come out of it hungry for once. I can't even express how relieved I'd be.
 

Crone Returns

Arachnoangel
Joined
Mar 22, 2016
Messages
990
Well that's good to hear! I agree that her abdomen doesn't look shriveled, but I guess I've always attributed that more to dehydration rather than nutrition.

Here's hoping she's just a drama queen... if she makes it to/through a molt, maybe she'll come out of it hungry for once. I can't even express how relieved I'd be.
Mine didn't eat, moped around lazily forEVER. I got worried, but the told me basically what @VanessaS told you. 10 days after she finally molted she was in full "feed me, puny human or else!"
She's been eating like crazy since. And I still cut the large cricket in half :vomit: and she destroys the blasted thing while I'm not looking:rolleyes:.
 

Nmilburn14

Arachnosquire
Joined
Apr 3, 2017
Messages
77
IMG_4474.JPG IMG_4473.JPG She seems to have a little more energy today, though still extremely clumsy. One thing that is worrisome is that her abdomen seems to have a bit of a dip in it? She also had 3 or 4 mites around her mouthparts (attacking anything left of the bug slurry--the same type of mites that always seem to be attracted to spider poop and boluses), and I had to remove those before I left her alone. Those mites seem to pop up no matter what I do in every enclosure that isn't completely bone dry...

Does the dip in her abdomen appear worrisome to anyone else, or am I being crazy again? Honestly the amount of energy she had today is very encouraging to me, but her abdomen is giving me a new thing to worry about.
 
Top