Euathlus sp. red courtship

ErinM31

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I would have posted this in the breeding sub-forum, but I have insufficient privileges -- perhaps one of the mods will relocate this once there is an eggsac. ;) As of this writing, my Euathlus sp. red pair have not yet mated, but I thought it could be beneficial to record what I try and their various encounters in case others may find this information useful. :)

First, my lovely pair:
male

female

I have their enclosures (medium-sized Exo Terra breeding boxes) right next to each other in the hopes that the pair can see and smell the other, getting used to the other's presence and hopefully in the mood for love. ;)

First Meeting:
In retrospect, it was too soon as the female had not yet settled in and was acting fearful. Sure enough, when I let the male cross into the box, he touched her back (she was crouched in a corner), she was so startled, she leapt out of her enclosure onto my hand (I was hovering over in case there was any aggression). At least there were no injuries; I returned each tarantula to their enclosure.

Second Meeting:
The female has acclimated to her enclosure. While she has not dug a burrow, she walks about confidently and often sits on top of a piece of bark I added. As of last night, she had recently eaten several crickets and last night she was in an exploratory mood, even crawling onto my hand and up my arm (the male has done that before, but the female generally preferred not to be handled). Back in her enclosure, she was walking around the perimeter and paused directly across from the male, who was also next to the wall of his own enclosure. I removed the lids and had the enclosures abutting. The female was now closer to the center of her domain but still facing the male so she saw when I encouraged him to cross over into hers. Both were clearly aware of the other and he approached her carefully. They touched front legs and stood like this for a few moments and the male began quivering. The female did not move. The male moved forward then, presumably to take things further, but the female turned away. When he walked toward her again, she moved further away, more quickly, more decisively this time; she was not ready. I ushered the disappointed male back to his enclosure and closed the lids.

No mating yet, but I am happy there were still no signs of aggression and at least now I feel that they have had a proper first date! :p
 
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Walter1

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Thanks for sharing. Helpful to know. I'm a little surprised that she didn't follow through.

For advice, I suggest that you place some remnants of his sperm web in her cage. Give her a few days and try again.
 

ErinM31

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Thanks for sharing. Helpful to know. I'm a little surprised that she didn't follow through.

For advice, I suggest that you place some remnants of his sperm web in her cage. Give her a few days and try again.
Thank you for the advice! I haven't definitively see the remains of one, but I am watchful. :)

EDIT: Found it -- them -- my boy's been busy! :happy:
 
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viper69

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Your female is Roman Catholic, may need to hold a marriage. Thanks for the details!
 

Andrea82

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viper69 said:
Your female is Roman Catholic, may need to hold a marriage. Thanks for the details!
Better establish a prenuptial first....'wife does not have the right to eat the husband after intercourse, and agrees here by to release the husband following this intercourse'
 

sdsnybny

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I have experienced the exact same thing from my E. sp yellow female. I can only hope she was refusing due to being close to a molt. No bald spot so hard to tell.
I will try again and if nothing happens I will hope for a molt before the male on loan has to pack his traveling bag.
 

viper69

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I have experienced the exact same thing from my E. sp yellow female. I can only hope she was refusing due to being close to a molt. No bald spot so hard to tell.
I will try again and if nothing happens I will hope for a molt before the male on loan has to pack his traveling bag.
Looking forward to the pics.
 

ErinM31

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I have experienced the exact same thing from my E. sp yellow female. I can only hope she was refusing due to being close to a molt. No bald spot so hard to tell.
I will try again and if nothing happens I will hope for a molt before the male on loan has to pack his traveling bag.
I hope so too -- keep us updated!
 

sdsnybny

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Small thread jack pics of my Euathlus yellows MM and MF for ErinMk31 and viper69.
The female looks to a bit faded and has been eating like a pig. Hopefully she is going to molt soon or being wild caught she is already gravid.

2016-04-02 16.32.54.jpg IMAG1225.jpg
 

ErinM31

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The female looks to a bit faded and has been eating like a pig. Hopefully she is going to molt soon or being wild caught she is already gravid.
Oh wow, her abdomen is large! :wideyed: I bet she is gravid!
 

ErinM31

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I hope so there isn't many E. sp yellow's in the hobby
I hope so too! They are beautiful and I've heard as good in temperament as the E. sp reds -- definitely on my wish list! I think these adorable dwarf tarantulas are my favorites! :happy:
 

viper69

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I hope so there isn't many E. sp yellow's in the hobby
True enough. Kelly Swift hatched some out, I have one of his. The color of your male has a bit of the yellow that I would expect. Earlier Yellow's often had more yelllow, I suspect they were all in imports, but I could be wrong on that.

I hope so too! They are beautiful and I've heard as good in temperament as the E. sp reds -- definitely on my wish list! I think these adorable dwarf tarantulas are my favorites! :happy:
They are great. The Yellows behave just like the Reds. I wouldn't be surprised if they are the same species or a subspecies.
 

ErinM31

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Do the Euathlus sp. yellow also go by another name like the Euathlus sp. red are also called "Chilean Flame" or "Chilean Dwarf Flame"? Out of curiosity, I did a search to see who offered Yellows and while I found a few dealers in Europe, there were NONE in the U.S., making me wonder if they go by a different name here.
 

sdsnybny

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Nope they go buy the same name here and they rarely come up for sale.
Euathlus sp. yellow
 

ErinM31

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Nope they go buy the same name here and they rarely come up for sale.
Euathlus sp. yellow
Good to know, thank you! Well, if you get slings -- and I hope you do, you know one interested buyer! ;)
 

viper69

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Good to know, thank you! Well, if you get slings -- and I hope you do, you know one interested buyer! ;)
Kelly Swift had a sac about a year ago. I bought one instantly. I haven't seen them since in the USA. If you email him he may still have some that are older or not. I don't go by what's listed on breeder's site because they always have something they may be holding back, you just never know. For example. I know someone that came into a highly sought after species because a local person got out of the hobby. The owner told me s/he would give me a good deal on what they received, they aren't advertised on the person's site.
 

ErinM31

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Third and Fourth Meetings:
From first date to old married couple -- wait, what about the honeymoon that's supposed to happen sometime in between there?! :p I think it may have been too soon after I made some adjustments to the female's enclosure -- removing the resin hide she never used and moving some substrate from the male's enclosure into hers. There were no signs of fear or aggression from either toward the other and the male appeared to be laying down some silk line at times (I couldn't see the silk, but the movement of his spinnerets).

---

I waited a while before trying again and in the mean time, half buried one of those peat Jiffy seedling starter pots with part of the bottom removed (in case she wished to use this and extend the burrow further back) for her to use as a hide. There is also a long piece of bark (which I boiled and then baked) place in her enclosure so that she could go under it if she wishes -- a much more close-to-the-ground hide so that she has options. ;) Most of the time, she is on the surface, sitting the substrate, bark, rock (lightweight and the larger one goes all the way too the bottom), or the walls of the enclosure, but sometimes she will hang out inside her new cave. :) In contrast, the male seems to have deliberately filled in all of his hide options -- the rock burrow that I carefully constructed and curved bark piece. I suppose he has no desire for a burrow of his own as an MM, but it is interesting to me that he filled these in.

---

Fifth Meeting:
I waited a while until I felt the female was at home in her enclosure and both had recently had a candlelit meal of crickets (j/k about the candles, lol). I again opened both enclosures and the male crossed into the female's enclosure. Perhaps he caught her by surprise because she initially bolted (only just out of the enclose -- on this note, make sure that the area around the enclosures are uncluttered and that you block off any hazardous escape routes). Anyway, I returned her to her enclosure, far from the male, and she went into her Jiffy cave. When he approached her this time, I was a bit worried for the male, for if the female did feel threatened, her only recourse would be to attack. I watched closely and would have grabbed him out of there if necessary, which is probably all kinds of not-recommended, but I would take a bite for him to save him, if it came to that. Thankfully, my worry was unnecessary; as far as I could see, the female did not move at all, and the male's body language was anything but the hunter. He placed his legs on her, gently tapping, rubbing, and stroking; sometimes pausing; sometimes quivering a bit. The female was facing one of the back corners of the cave so there was nothing further he could do without some cooperation from her. Eventually, he left, but I did not perceive that he gave up: He walked all around her cave, tapping and laying lines of silk, and then finally came to rest in front of, but far back from the entrance. I noticed that he lowered himself so that all of his body and most of his legs were in contact with the ground -- probably to sense the movements of the female.

We waited.

Finally, the female emerged from her cave and casually wandered about, and then along two walls of the enclosure to where the male was (an L shaped trajectory). I think she was more interested in going out and exploring -- which I prevented -- and not looking for the male at all. Her attention was on the edge. As she grew close to the male, he stood and and turned to her, lifting his legs to initiate courtship. The female quickly retreated. Poor guy. :(

---

I cannot fathom what the reason could be for her lack of interest. There has never been the least aggression between them. At first I had thought she might not be full grown, but Euathlus sp. red have less size difference between the sexes. They are about the same size -- her body perhaps a touch larger than his and his legspan perhaps a bit more than hers. I am trying to think of what the reason could be or what I might try... Most suggestions I have seen are for if one of the tarantulas fears the other and this is not the problem here.
1) Premolt? She is eating and I see no darkening of her abdomen and I would not expect that to be prohibitive anyway -- don't they usually make and then the sperm or what would have been an eggsac is lost?
2) Pregnant? (Both were wild-caught.) Again, from what I have read, I do not think this would prevent a mating or if anything, might make her aggressive toward him if she is soon going to be making an eggsac.

I shall be acquiring a second female next month, but would like to figure out what is going on here as well. I wonder whether I should try more often? But then it is not like tarantulas are known for having extending periods of courtship... My female reminds me of those "delicate females" to which Mr. Collins refers when Miss Bennet rejects his proposal: :rolleyes:

"I am not now to learn,'' replied Mr. Collins, with a formal wave of the hand, "that it is usual with young ladies to reject the addresses of the man whom they secretly mean to accept, when he first applies for their favour; and that sometimes the refusal is repeated a second or even a third time. I am therefore by no means discouraged by what you have just said, and shall hope to lead you to the altar ere long. ... When I do myself the honour of speaking to you next on this subject I shall hope to receive a more favourable answer than you have now given me; though I am far from accusing you of cruelty at present, because I know it to be the established custom of your sex to reject a man on the first application, and perhaps you have even now said as much to encourage my suit as would be consistent with the true delicacy of the female character.''

 

ErinM31

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Sixth Meeting:
I wasn't sure whether trying again the very next day would be a good or a bad thing, but the apartment was much quieter today -- here by myself and my kitties had gotten all the attention they required for the morning and I thought there was a chance that background noise/vibrations have been at times too disruptive. To me, the female appeared to await the male, facing him as he crossed over and stretching forth her front legs to tap the substrate. The male, however, had only one objective in mind this morning, which was to move on to somewhere else. (During these meetings, I allow both tarantulas to move freely between the two enclosures although usually most of the male's time and all of the female's time is spent in her enclosure. But for obvious reasons I cannot let them leave beyond this and wander about my bedroom! I could move them to the bathroom tub -- which is the only place I now ever upon my Ephebopus murinus sling enclosures since discovering they can teleport -- but had not thought that would be necessary and indeed, thought such a change in local even though outside their enclosures would be disruptive.)

I had to stop both tarantulas from venturing out and thought for sure nothing would happen this morning. The male eventually returned to his own enclosure, to the far corner where he often hangs out but with intentions of going further. The female followed him. She stopped only a short distance from him and extended her front legs forward solicitously. The male was oblivious. (I would say that he was scorning her, upset from her dismissal of him yesterday, but that is obviously completely anthropomorphic and cannot be what was going on...) As I had to again block the male from leaving the enclosures, the female decided she'd had enough of this and returned to her own enclosure with the intention of going beyond. (Nothing like trying to keep two tarantulas in their enclosures and get the lids safely back on when they have other ideas and will try any way to crawl up your hand rather than return to the substrate as if you wanted them to step off into lava...)

So, yeah, pretty much a "non-meeting" this time. :grumpy: However, if I did not misinterpret the female's intent, this makes me think that I should try pairing them more often in the hopes of catching them both in the mood (I thought males were always in the mood, grrr).
 
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