Dwarf Tarantulas?

[Bill S]

The only true experts are the humble biologists/herpetologists/arachnologists/ etc. Anyone with an actual legit degree. Idc who says what--- but whoever has the degree has earned the right to the title of "expert" in my opinion

Interesting interpretation, but not one that I would agree with. "Expert", in my opinion, is someone who knows his/her subject very well. It has nothing to do with whether they are nice humble people or angry curmudgeons. There are no degrees offered anywhere for tarantula husbandry, so that can't very well be used as a standard either. (Plus degrees do not always guarantee someone knows their subject - only that they survived an eductional process.)

If someone is rude but provides valuable information, while another person is sweet and humble and provides useless misinformation, which one would you consider the most useful? Whose advice would you follow? I'll place my bets on the person who knows what they are talking about, regardless of how gently he talks about it.

Baboonfan, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder towards anyone who tells you that you are wrong. You were much more inflamatory in your responses than the people you are attacking were in theirs, and only because they didn't coddle you. Yes, Joe can be blunt. I don't always agree with him, but I have to admit he generally knows his subject well. His expertise does not diminish because of his bluntness, although his popularity with some members might. But your tirade didn't exactly reflect well on you either.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------

Cage size is a debate that might never be settled. Rob C for example would strongly disagree with my opinion given his preference for large cages. My experience with large cages is that feeders are too free to roam well outside of a Ts territory.

The value of large cages will change based on a number of other considerations. Cage size that works well for a person who provides one set of conditions will not work as well for someone who provides a different set of conditions. It's not that one answer is the correct one. As has been pointed out many times before, animals in the wild do not live in small cages.

"Territory" is also a misused term in a lot of cases. I know what you meant in your message quoted above, but I think I'd use something like "effective hunting area" instead.

 

[LeilaNami]

I had a P. scrofa for a while. I had bought a mature male when I first started and didn't know better. They're as docile as a rosie can be.

 

[SandDeku]

People I consider to be good sources of information would be the well established breeders. Rob C for example is a friendly guy who really knows his business. The "experts" I was talking about are internet tough guys (AKA keyboard commandos) who use forums to get arguments started without ever really having good advice for anyone.

Cage size is a debate that might never be settled. Rob C for example would strongly disagree with my opinion given his preference for large cages. My experience with large cages is that feeders are too free to roam well outside of a Ts territory.

Agreed. thanks Ill look into that.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:28 PM ----------

Interesting interpretation, but not one that I would agree with. "Expert", in my opinion, is someone who knows his/her subject very well. It has nothing to do with whether they are nice humble people or angry curmudgeons. There are no degrees offered anywhere for tarantula husbandry, so that can't very well be used as a standard either. (Plus degrees do not always guarantee someone knows their subject - only that they survived an eductional process.)

If someone is rude but provides valuable information, while another person is sweet and humble and provides useless misinformation, which one would you consider the most useful? Whose advice would you follow? I'll place my bets on the person who knows what they are talking about, regardless of how gently he talks about it.

Baboonfan, you seem to have a chip on your shoulder towards anyone who tells you that you are wrong. You were much more inflamatory in your responses than the people you are attacking were in theirs, and only because they didn't coddle you. Yes, Joe can be blunt. I don't always agree with him, but I have to admit he generally knows his subject well. His expertise does not diminish because of his bluntness, although his popularity with some members might. But your tirade didn't exactly reflect well on you either.

---------- Post added at 12:05 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:34 AM ----------


The value of large cages will change based on a number of other considerations. Cage size that works well for a person who provides one set of conditions will not work as well for someone who provides a different set of conditions. It's not that one answer is the correct one. As has been pointed out many times before, animals in the wild do not live in small cages.

"Territory" is also a misused term in a lot of cases. I know what you meant in your message quoted above, but I think I'd use something like "effective hunting area" instead.

Knowledge does not excuse rudeness. Sure the person may know more--- but it doesn't open up the other person for learning. It may even discourage people. Which it actually does--- did for my friend. Then when stuff like the hobby becomming illegal(apparently there is an ongoing debate about how people want to pass a new law to ban exotics---including inverts) then where will the person keeping the inverts turn to?

They pretty much chased off all the people trying to learn, and nobody will listen anymore. You get it? It's what also causes ALOT of people to go to the wrong source for learning. Nobody said anything about "coddling" anyone. But I mean just don't be a jerk about it either. You know? You can state your opinion. But don't be like "ur hur you re-turd you doing itz wrongz u shouldnt be usings a heat pad it burnz the tarantula. derp derp.
Other person: Leaves(still left the heat pad in the tank and failed to listen)"(tried making it funny too--excuse me for that bit ) where the person could be like "Hey it would be wise not to use a heat pad for a tarantula enclosure.

Other person: Why?
You: Because it could burn the tarantula should it decide to dig
Other person: Oh thanks! I'll take it right away" .

That's an example. You know what I mean? You don't have to coddle the person. Just don't add extra pointless insults when instead of insulting the person you could be helping them. Then at that point it just becomes trolling if you're just going to insult them or being a prick.

I thought that rule of "the bigger the better" applies to inverts as well. It's a rule applying to fish, reptiles, amphibians and even small mammals.
I mean no disrespect by any of the thing said. It's just proper ethics. Especially if the person giving the information is older than 20. It's like--- why act like a childish prick? You're 20-80 years old ---- act like it.

---------- Post added at 06:38 PM ---------- Previous post was at 06:38 PM ----------

I had a P. scrofa for a while. I had bought a mature male when I first started and didn't know better. They're as docile as a rosie can be.

Males? I thought males are short lived. Only living a year or three at most. Correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Bill S]

Knowledge does not excuse rudeness. Sure the person may know more--- but it doesn't open up the other person for learning.

I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge. "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge. That's the point I was making. To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong. And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.

 

[SandDeku]

I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge. "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge. That's the point I was making. To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong. And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.

I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn myself.

---------- Post added at 02:36 AM ---------- Previous post was at 02:02 AM ----------

I understand your point - but keep in mind that rudeness does not negate knowledge. "Expert" has nothing to do with manners, it's related to knowledge. That's the point I was making. To state that you need to be humble in order to be an expert is wrong. And although I'd much prefer dealing with someone who has good manners, when I'm looking for expert information I recognize that I can't reject knowledge just because I don't like someone's personality.

I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn.

 

[Bill S]

I understand that. but I guess I was taught strongly about having self worth and self respect overly that I don't react well to any intentional rudeness. Even if they say they aren't trying to be. People CAN lie. lol. If anything I rather struggle and look for it myself. I'm quite stubborn.

So if someone gave you good advice but did so in a rude way - you'd reject that advice and go look for it yourself somewhere else? Why? What possible advantage is there in that? Sometimes it's far more productive (and happier) to just shrug and acknowledge that not everyone sees the world the way you do. Accept the differences and live with them.

 

[SandDeku]

So if someone gave you good advice but did so in a rude way - you'd reject that advice and go look for it yourself somewhere else? Why? What possible advantage is there in that? Sometimes it's far more productive (and happier) to just shrug and acknowledge that not everyone sees the world the way you do. Accept the differences and live with them.

Because of two things. Just because someones misserable(assuming the rude person is) they don't have to spread it to someone else. I'm pretty sure if someone called you a retard constantly it would make you upset or something. Online or not. It doesn't matter. Even if you say it doesn't affect you. Stuff like that affects everybody. Whether they notice it or not its their own.

 

[xhexdx]

I'm glad I stopped posting in this thread, so it could get back on topic...

SandDeku - did you find my posts rude and offensive?

 

[SandDeku]

I'm glad I stopped posting in this thread, so it could get back on topic...

SandDeku - did you find my posts rude and offensive?

Actually no your posts where fine on your end(atleast towards myself--- I can't speak for anyone else). Just generally speaking. Anyway to get back on topic I guess I'm still looking at many species of T.s out there. Your posts where actually helpful towards me.

 

[LeilaNami]

Males? I thought males are short lived. Only living a year or three at most. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Yeah I bought a mature male before I knew what to look for. It came in as a rosehair at the Petco I worked at and I snatched him up.

 

[SandDeku]

Yeah I bought a mature male before I knew what to look for. It came in as a rosehair at the Petco I worked at and I snatched him up.

Nice. I like the dwarfs because some of them have the size and pattern of a dark colored wolf spider. which is my favorite spider. I have one and it's pretty active. Almost always active. I think it's just wanting to get out. maybe ill upgrade it. I wish I could just keep breeding them constantly so I have a constant thing so I won't have to worry about if they live a season only.

Well I remember that first dwarf t. the one thats brown with red/orangy stripes that are faint. But someone on here recommended. It's palm sized. I like that one.

 

[LucasNorth]

After some slight De-railment.
I agree with H. incei, i personally have 3 of them communally living and they are pretty calm (fast). but the king is the H. Sp columbia. Both get no larger than 4 inches and although are skittish I've never gotten attitude from any of em.
Beeeee

 

[AbraxasComplex]

4'' is definitely pushing it, but it is possible if my largest H.incei female lives a several more years she will reach that point. She is already around 3'' and she's only 3 years old.

Dwarf species are great additions to any collection. I like them a little too much.

 

[SandDeku]

After some slight De-railment.
I agree with H. incei, i personally have 3 of them communally living and they are pretty calm (fast). but the king is the H. Sp columbia. Both get no larger than 4 inches and although are skittish I've never gotten attitude from any of em.
Beeeee

O: how active do you think these guys are? Sp. columbia? got some pics on those too? Community? You can keep T.s in communities?

 

[AbraxasComplex]

O: how active do you think these guys are? Sp. columbia? got some pics on those too? Community? You can keep T.s in communities?

He got them from me. And yes I keep them in communities. The behavior and habitat differences are not too different between Holothele incei and Holothele sp. Colombia though two major differences remain. According to the gentleman that collected them nearly 15 years ago, their environment is much warmer in comparison to H.incei. H.incei prefer a range of 70-80'F before they start webbing themselves off and trying to cool themselves down in their burrows (in my experience), while the Colombia prefer 75-90'F (according to my supplier and my experiences). Also Colombia will web but not as much as the H.incei. They tend to hide their webs with debris or not extend them beyond the protection of a branch or leaf litter. Granted I notice this behavior more in my heavily planted social tanks rather than in a deli cup for a single female. The H.incei on the other hand will web up nearly everything they can. Collectors of H.incei have noted you can even see H.incei webbing on the side of the road while driving.

Both species are quite active and can be seen spinning webs often, venturing into other spiderlings burrows, and sharing food at specific age groups (including mothers feeding offspring). Even solitary specimens are active or at the very least wait just on the edge of their burrow entrance so you can see them quite often.



If you do a quick search on communal tanks you will see that several species will do well under specific conditions when placed in a social setting. If supplied with an over abundance of physical barriers, hiding spots, and a steady supply of food in a larger enclosure species that take care of their young for extended periods will also tolerate a social setting with multiple generations. The species I have had success with are:

Holothele incei and Holothele incei "gold"
Holothele sp. Colombia
Heterothele villosella
Heterothele gabonensis
Hemiercus sp. Venezuelan Red
Oligoxystre sp. Atlantic Forest Brazil
Pamphobeteus sp. Chicken Spider

And though not a tarantula Ischnothele caudata makes an incredibly interesting colony.

I have tried with others and either never received eggsacs from viable females or maturing adults started creating conflicts that destabilized the colony.

It is best to get more experience with tarantulas before diving into a community, but I find that many social environments are quite simple to establish once you understand the basics and have learned from the mistakes others have made in the past.



EDIT: Oh and as a warning, no matter the species or social environment, cannibalism can and will happen sooner or later. Usually it is a female consuming a MM that won't leave her alone after breeding. Other times a spiderling will prey on another if hunger becomes an issue. A fight between two individuals can lead to the death of one, but survival instincts dictate energy was expended so the losing individual is consumed to regain energy stores. It still exists with these social species, but not at a level found with most solitary species. No social environment will lack this intraspecific predation since tarantulas are predatory animals that still have a variety of instincts and natural interactions that we cannot control or prevent.

 

[LucasNorth]

yah, what he said
AC probly knows more about this topic than anyone else so i dont see a point in saying else. I guess Sp. colombia would be very difficult to aquire so H. incei is the more logical choice for a dwarf. They are cheap and coolio. Very active webbers from what ive seen my slings do.

 

[AbraxasComplex]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, but I don't know everything. I'm still learning and can help contribute my knowledge. Focusing on this part of the hobby makes sense to me since it is what interests me the most. I'm still happy to learn when someone comes along with some tips and knowledge that I didn't even consider or realize.

 

[SandDeku]

He got them from me. And yes I keep them in communities. The behavior and habitat differences are not too different between Holothele incei and Holothele sp. Colombia though two major differences remain. According to the gentleman that collected them nearly 15 years ago, their environment is much warmer in comparison to H.incei. H.incei prefer a range of 70-80'F before they start webbing themselves off and trying to cool themselves down in their burrows (in my experience), while the Colombia prefer 75-90'F (according to my supplier and my experiences). Also Colombia will web but not as much as the H.incei. They tend to hide their webs with debris or not extend them beyond the protection of a branch or leaf litter. Granted I notice this behavior more in my heavily planted social tanks rather than in a deli cup for a single female. The H.incei on the other hand will web up nearly everything they can. Collectors of H.incei have noted you can even see H.incei webbing on the side of the road while driving.

Both species are quite active and can be seen spinning webs often, venturing into other spiderlings burrows, and sharing food at specific age groups (including mothers feeding offspring). Even solitary specimens are active or at the very least wait just on the edge of their burrow entrance so you can see them quite often.



If you do a quick search on communal tanks you will see that several species will do well under specific conditions when placed in a social setting. If supplied with an over abundance of physical barriers, hiding spots, and a steady supply of food in a larger enclosure species that take care of their young for extended periods will also tolerate a social setting with multiple generations. The species I have had success with are:

Holothele incei and Holothele incei "gold"
Holothele sp. Colombia
Heterothele villosella
Heterothele gabonensis
Hemiercus sp. Venezuelan Red
Oligoxystre sp. Atlantic Forest Brazil
Pamphobeteus sp. Chicken Spider

And though not a tarantula Ischnothele caudata makes an incredibly interesting colony.

I have tried with others and either never received eggsacs from viable females or maturing adults started creating conflicts that destabilized the colony.

It is best to get more experience with tarantulas before diving into a community, but I find that many social environments are quite simple to establish once you understand the basics and have learned from the mistakes others have made in the past.



EDIT: Oh and as a warning, no matter the species or social environment, cannibalism can and will happen sooner or later. Usually it is a female consuming a MM that won't leave her alone after breeding. Other times a spiderling will prey on another if hunger becomes an issue. A fight between two individuals can lead to the death of one, but survival instincts dictate energy was expended so the losing individual is consumed to regain energy stores. It still exists with these social species, but not at a level found with most solitary species. No social environment will lack this intraspecific predation since tarantulas are predatory animals that still have a variety of instincts and natural interactions that we cannot control or prevent.

Jeez. So If i have something like a 30gallon exo terra terrarium. How many spiders can I put in? I assume they need water dishes too. How much do you feed each spider per week? And how often? do you use calci-vita powders?

Are these arboreal?


Here are what I like so far not in order:
http://www.dipluridae.de/wiki/images/thumb/Ischnothele_caudata.jpg/250px-Ischnothele_caudata.jpg

http://www.tarantulacanada.ca/gallery/images/1095.jpg
http://www.tarantulacanada.ca/gallery/images/584.jpg
http://i678.photobucket.com/albums/vv145/pato_arg/CS2ndinstar.jpg

I like the incei's too. Both reg. and gold. I saw the caudata thingy and I read its dangerous?

---------- Post added at 10:36 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:27 PM ----------

yah, what he said
AC probly knows more about this topic than anyone else so i dont see a point in saying else. I guess Sp. colombia would be very difficult to aquire so H. incei is the more logical choice for a dwarf. They are cheap and coolio. Very active webbers from what ive seen my slings do.

Anyone know where I can find the dwarf T's for sale?

 

[desertanimal]

Anyone know where I can find the dwarf T's for sale?

I'm no expert, but I'm thinking maybe the For Sale subforum would be a good place to look. :?

 

[AbraxasComplex]

Jeez. So If i have something like a 30gallon exo terra terrarium. How many spiders can I put in? I assume they need water dishes too. How much do you feed each spider per week? And how often? do you use calci-vita powders?

Are these arboreal?


I like the incei's too. Both reg. and gold. I saw the caudata thingy and I read its dangerous?

I never use water dishes as they get water from their food and when I mist the tank. Some people recommend not to use water dishes anyway with Dwarf tarantulas. And I usually give 1-4 feeder items per tarantula depending on the colony once a week. As for how many in a 30 gallon, shoot me a message and we can figure out what social species you want to pursue after you gain some more experience with dwarf species.

Never use calci-vita powders as there is no need to dust an exoskeleton as a tarantula does not consume the exoskeleton. There is also debate on whether excess calcium causes molting issues, so it is best to avoid it anyway.

As for Ischnothele caudata where have you read they are highly venomous? Please provide a link if you can. I have never heard this from various keepers and collectors of this species and I will sometimes transfer them by handling them. I know a common misconception is that when anything is considered a funnel-web they believe they have strong venom like the Australian funnel-webs.