Discussion on centipede substrate depth

Staehilomyces

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This is something I wanted to talk about on here for quite a while. It seems to be common knowledge that centipedes require very deep substrate in captivity. However, I feel as though this may not be completely necessary. Now, before I get flagged with dislike and disagree ratings, let me first say that I am merely voicing an idea, not encouraging any radical change in husbandry.

When I had my old Scolopendra morsitans, I kept him in shallow substrate owing to a lack of research. It was still deep enough for him to burrow in, and indeed he did, but eventually, he stopped burrowing completely. Initially, I thought this was out of stress, but he continued to feed and drink normally. In fact, I recall him coming out more after he was fed several times on the surface. Initially, I still felt as though I was raising him in an unhealthy setting, but as the years passed, I began to feel more and more that he was doing well in the conditions I had provided. When he died, it was after he had been in my ownership for over six years, bearing in mind he was already adult when I bought him. This was the first experience that made me wonder if centipedes needed as much substrate as it is said.

In addition, on the recent Cape York trip, on which I daresay many of you would know I found several large tiger Ethmostigmus rubripes, four out of five of the centipedes were found under hides on hard surfaces where they could not have burrowed. Three of them were on concrete floor, and the other was on hard-packed ground. Not to mention, every centipede I have ever found in the wild was under a log/rock as opposed to burrowed in the earth. This leads me to the conclusion that, as long as you provide ample hiding space, a deep substrate is not as important as it is often stressed in care guides, unless you are dealing with fossorial species such as E. trigonopodus and S. angulata.

Feel free to add to the discussion below.
 

AusBugKid

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This is really interesting. Good to note about E. trigonopodus though, but I've definitely seen many in the wild between hard or firm surfaces, sometimes with only a shallow scrape and no visible burrow.

Would it be true to suggest that observations like this are more globally useful on the board, as so many species are intercontinental? For example, something true of our Scorpions, which are not readily available elsewhere, might not be as important to note for an American keeper?
 

Staehilomyces

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Seeing as we're in Australia, I presume it was E. rubripes you saw. E. trigonopodus is from Africa.
 

AusBugKid

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Sorry I should have been more clear. The thing about specimens in the wild was about E. rubripes, I should have had a full stop somewhere in there rather than a comma followed by "but".
Having said that I was under the impression we had E. trigonopodus here as well? I must have misread it somewhere.
 

Staehilomyces

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No, we don't have E. trigonopodus. However, we do have a couple other Ethmostigmus species, such as E. muiri and E. pachycephalus.
 

AusBugKid

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Upon further investigation I found the source of my confusion, a set of photos online mislabeled "E. trigonopodus centipede from Australia".

I'll have to look into those other Ethmostigmus. Sorry to derail your thread :)
 

LeFanDesBugs

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Ethmostigmus seems to be a very misunderstood genus. For instance, all the "color morphs" from africa must be different species altogether, IMO.
@Staehilomyces I think you're right. When I went searching for pedes in the forest, I never really found centipedes under rocks that had complex tunnel systems underneath. The only centipede I found that had burrowed was in tunisia, on Djerba island. I flipped a rock and it fled out of sight through a small tunnel that had been clearly MADE.
When it comes to captive conditions, my S. hainanum never burrowed since I got it, right after it left its mom. My dehaani only burrows half of her body under her cork tunnel or simply lays there on the moist substrate.
My impressions on S.cingulata are mixed. One of my specimens basically never comes out while the others are often found outside, even during the day. When they're hidden they usually stay under their hides and don't burrow. One of them does burrow at times. That's why I'm saying my impressions are mixed. This is the species I have the most specimens of, and the variety in behaviour is quite intriguing. My pedeling never hides.
Though none of them has more than 1 1/4" of substrate and they're perfectly healthy.
Centipedes (at least the tropical ones) certainly display arboreal behaviour, which we haven't adressed yet in our care.
 

Salvador

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Too add to this, I'd say you're bang on the money. Even with burrowing species, I've never needed to add too much, as long as they can maintain some type of structure using what's available. I have a female S. alternans raising young as we speak in little more than 1.5" of sub, and she's plugged everything up around cork bark perfectly fine.

I'd generally be more concerned about the right type of substrate, how clean it is, and how much moisture it has for the centipede, rather than the amount.
 

RTTB

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I think 4" deep is fine for the majority of species.
 

Chris LXXIX

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I offered to my female S.subspinipes a good 5/6 inches of substrate (with pieces of cork bark and fake leaves, of course) and she's always 'down under' the cork, or busy creating holes everywhere like a Viet Cong.

She's out basically only when she's hungry, and if there's no 'food' she try to munch the air holes, starts to climb... after a couple of big B.dubia, disappears again :)
 

Staehilomyces

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Well, I must say I'm surprised with the fact that many of you seem to support what I'm saying. I was half expecting to get pounced on for "promoting bad husbandry" or something of that ilk.
 

AusBugKid

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Well, I must say I'm surprised with the fact that many of you seem to support what I'm saying. I was half expecting to get pounced on for "promoting bad husbandry" or something of that ilk.
Well you've mentioned noticing this behaviour in the wild, and I think "good husbandry" is trying to best replicate a comfortable natural environment for invertebrates, so this makes your observation totally valid
 

Bugman5454

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My Dehanni (adult) and subspinipes (12cm) both have complex tunnel systems, A.multicostis (adult) is always under his cork but there are 2 holes on the surface, S.hardwickei never burrows (5cm) Is it possible that on these hard surfaces in the wild, they physically can't burrow? and we're providing something better, or/and it's an enrichment for them to create these amazing burrows? I find it very fancinating none the less!
 

LawnShrimp

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My S. s. mutilans being kept separate from the rest are in deli cups with varying amounts of sub, but those with a smaller amount burrow and sit around as much as those with more sub. S. hainanum burrows with its last 3 segments sticking out and always comes out at night. Meanwhile, I have a R. longipes in 4" of substrate and she is always buried at the very bottom, having filled in her burrows. I find this odd as she was captured under a board lying on sand, not burrowed at all.
 

Scoly

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You guys might be making a bit of a mistake with your assumptions based on where you find them in nature. If you go round flipping logs and rocks, you're going to find the ones hiding under logs and rocks, and not the ones that have burrowed :D

I've found Cingulata in the wild under rocks with no tunnels visible. I've also lifted rocks only for them to disappear down tunnels. And also found them wedged in drift wood on a sandy beach.

I think centipedes simply will hide wherever they can, burrowng if they feel the need to, and the substrate is right. Whether they feel the need to probably depends on temperature/moisture/light levels/air movements. If you provide an environment in which the centipede doesn't feel it needs to burrow, I don't think that's a problem, and the fact Staehilomyces kept an adult mortisans alive for 6 years proves that point.

There are differences in species' behaviour however. Look at E. trigonopodus or A. chilensis. These are the centipede equivalent of a burrowing spider staying under a hide with antennae poking out, waiting for insects to pass which they drag straight under. Although they will go for a wander if they are hungry too. Interestingly it's morphology corresponds to that: fat body with short stout legs. Other centipede species have longer legs and thinner bodies, which suggests they are quite comfortable hunting out in the open, similar to burrowing vs arboreal tarantulas.

My mutilans like digging half-circle tunnels, sometimes leaving their terminal legs or their antennae poking out of one hole. The rest of the time they just sit under bark. Pictures from commercial farms in China show mutilans running loose over straw bales, yet they're happy enough to breed in large numbers. Go figure!

I think we need to remember that centipedes are quite adaptable, and as opportunistic with their choice of hide-out as they are with their food sources. And with the exception of some species, you don't have to provide a substrate they can burrow in.
 

Staehilomyces

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I agree. My main point is that centipedes seem perfectly able to live well in shallow substrate with a hide, where we're more likely to see them. I know there's the whole "thriving or just surviving" side, but I will re-iterate that my morsitans survived for six years in what I gave it.
 

Staehilomyces

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Just thought I'd add that centipede, due to their lifestyles, have to be adaptable creatures. The fact that they're wandering hunters with no permanent residences means they have to use whatever happens to be around. In other words, I imagine they would be tolerant of a much wider variety of setups than lair bound inverts such as tarantulas. Anyone else have anything to add?
 

LawnShrimp

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As long as a centipede is has some form of shelter away from the light, that is properly humid and warm, I think it will feel safe. There certainly are more sedentary species and more active ones. I would rather err on the side of too much substrate, as this will make sure that the centipede is happy- if it doesn't want to burrow, it doesn't have to.
 

dragonfire1577

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Well my Scolopendra polymorpha has around 4 inches and created a complex tunnel system which I found very cool. My Scolopendra heros on the other hand only has maybe 1 inch of substrate as he is quite small and still hasn't showed any interest in tunneling.
 
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