David Shur aka DavidRS

[xenesthis]

DAVID SHUR, Beverly Hills, CA. 01/11/08. BEWARE of David Shur. This guy is not rational. He selectively hears what he wants in communications. He gets very confused easily. He has demonstrated that he will copy your emails word-for-word for anyway to twist against you. He might even record your phone call with him. He also has shown himself to be a vindictive person that will even make threatening phone calls. A few might have some smooth transactions with this guy here and there, but eventually he can turn on you and do the above things. He did it to me. He had a credit with me. I satisfied that credit with shipping him nice, rare and healthy inverts. Done deal. Next thing I know he announces a smear campaign against me. In the past 15 years, I have hundreds of satisfied customers and hundreds of positive reviews. That speaks for itself. Oh, and David's exact words were "I have to say everything was well-packed, healthy and represented accurately."

 

[cacoseraph]

everytime i have dealt with David Shur i have had nothing but great experiences

he has told me that he was basically stuck with $600 of your store credit and that you are unwilling to trade it for most of the "stock" you have listed as it is not actually in your possession even though it is on your website. it was a long back and forth in which more and more of the "stock" on your site turned out to be vaporware

David has always been extremely supportive of local hobbyists and has given away a lot of animals to locals. He has watched animals for me and has helped me to acquire species that i have had my heart set on for quite a while.


I would and am definitely going to deal with David again... however i would never deal with Todd. Every local person i have talked to in the flesh has had problems with Todd. People get stuck with almost useless store credit or make orders for species that Todd just plain does not, nor possibly ever has possessed.

 

[NBond1986]

David has always been extremely supportive of local hobbyists and has given away a lot of animals to locals. He has watched animals for me and has helped me to acquire species that i have had my heart set on for quite a while.

Ditto to that. David has hooked me up with some awesome species, sometimes for free! He has always been very honorable, and has even put his own money on the line for my benefit!

I would never stop dealing with David. One of the most down-to-earth honest guys I've ever dealt with (and I've dealt with a lot of people over the years).

I have to admit that I have never had a personal dealing with Todd, but have heard enough negative reviews to avoid his business. It's too bad that it has to be that way.

 

[ronin]

I have purchased & traded inverts with David on more than a few occassions & have always come away extremely happy (not to mention the freebies I have received). He keeps his customers in mind first & does whatever he can to ensure they are satisfied.

I believe it comes down to business ethics & David won't try to "lure you in" w/stock he doesn't have, never did have, or has no intention of having so you end up buying whatever else is listed, among other things.

 

[sick4x4]

i get you got mad Todd but this is going alittle overboard don't you think...whats so dis-hearting about this situation is that David can not defend himself here... which you are totally aware of..

look, I have had several transactions with david and he has gone above and beyond to make me feel comfortable with our transactions... the things his daughter wrote where based on her transactions with you and i guess also her dad..they didn't like their experience ok, it also seems you didn't like theirs and thats ok too....

im just not understanding the warning??? did you get ripped off??? did you lose any money or products to them???? if this is a personal thing then your warning is kinda crossing the line and hopefully the MODS erase this thread..

....maybe what they said was true about the credit thing, if i remember people were trying to get rid of it really bad, they were selling it for pennies on the dollar..not because of not wanting to use it but because they couldn't...people are allowed to post negative reviews about dealers if they feel it was a bad situation, no matter how long that dealer has been in the business..its a part of doing business...i just don't like where this has gone...

wayne

 

[xenesthis]

David Shur

I and other dealers have used credit for years. We have similar policies and some of us have very different ones. That's called a diverse market. David bought another customer's credit from him, not because I didn't have stuff in-stock (and I resent that accusation very much as David's smear campaign has tried hard to paint that picture and my hundreds of transactions of satisfying hundreds of customers with stock from their credit completely backs that up), but because that customer needed $$$ quick for some bills. David Shur got the credit and I explained to him many times what he could use it for, but this nut could understand it (funny for all these years, nobody else had a problem understanding it and using it extensively to get nice stock from me) and I got him nice, rare and healthy inverts that he wanted. He did want a few things that I did not have and he continued to want to use credit for a few things that I told him repeatedly my policy on and he just didn't get it ( a customer first in my books). He is very confusing to communicate with and can't understand basic concepts.

Anyway, he wanted certain stock. I shipped him. He acknowledged everything was nice and then he turns around and does a hatchet job on me on over four sites to portray me as a bad dealer. I did not screw this guy over what-so-ever. Then, I found out there is some dirty competition going on and David got some ammo to use to try to discredit me to play low ball. I have over 15 yrs. of thousands of good transactions with hundreds and customers and hundreds of postive reviews all over the net. I worked hard to earn that reputation and I'll be damed if I let this nut portray me in any bad light. Customers and friends know me good enough know I'm a good person and a good dealer. This guy David Shur, he is not a good person. You should listen to his irrational, crazy and threatening voice messages he left me this past weekend. Nut job and leaving them on my voice mail was not very smart.

The only thing he should have done in the beginning was post a positive, negative or neutral review and state that he didn't understand and/or like my trade credit policies. I could have just responded by explaining them and saying I'm sorry he felt that way, but no, he went way, way overboard to portray me as a bad dealer and he did quite the hatchet job on me in which I find out some dirty competition input contributed to his hatchet job. It was wrong what he did and is still doing. I am forced to defend myself. Put yourself in my shoes.

 

[Beardo]

Todd, why don't you explain your credit policies here for everyone to see.

Surely you don't really list animals that aren't in your possession on your stock list? Surely you don't list animals you don't have simply to "generate interest"? Seems to me that only dishonest crooks do that kind of thing.

 

[ftorres]

Hello,
Dave has purchased lots of inverts from me, I had talked to him on the phone lots of time He is always polite, even when I messed up his orders. I had also buy some nice spiders from him and I had not a single complain about his ways of conducting bussiness.

Todd, if he was mislead by your competition the problem is with your competitors and not with Dave. So settle your problems with your competitors as they have a big network of custumers and they will talk about you,so it will be a matter of time before we see another unsatisfied buyer post in your review section.

I guess you should have offer money for his credit if you say he was a nut like you call him, which I think is uncalled for.

Reputable dealers always keep being proffesioanls, no matter what a custumer does or doesn't do.

I will continue selling and buying from Dave, Specially since I do know is a good reasonable person and great custumer/buyer.

ftorres

 

[xenesthis]

David Beard

>Todd, why don't you explain your credit policies here for everyone to see.

You may use store credit for items that I have in-stock, physically and are ready to ship. It's that simple. You may not use credit for items that are not in-stock - period. Wow. Hard to understand, huh?

>Surely you don't really list animals that aren't in your possession on your >stock list?

Some items I do. That's called brokering David. It's done to help somebody sell something that they either don't have the time to sell or don't have the wide advertising medium that I have. Brokering is not a big part of my business though. My own captive-breeding and purchase and trades with suppliers is my main part. People going off to college, getting a divorce, going to Iraq or have to move quickly and can't take their invert collection contact me all the time to broker their stock for them. Nothing wrong with that David. It's maybe 10% of my business if that.

>Surely you don't list animals you don't have simply to "generate interest"?

I sometimes list animals as species profiles and info and pics to yes, help promote them. Yes. This helps all involved with bringing in a new species. The exporter, the importer and the retailer. It also is very educational for hobbyists to preview what's coming in and allows the exporter, importer and retailers to judge demand for the species. Nothing wrong with that David. In fact, one importer has asked me to do this and approved of it and it helps his exporter, him and me. So, this is not new, wrong, sinister or anything of the like David especially when that person approves of it and you have received shipments from him.

>Seems to me that only dishonest crooks do that kind of thing.

Now, this is where you cross the line and do a little personal attack. I have taken my time and honestly answered your questions and you make that association? Your bias shows automatically.

 

[xenesthis]

the other side

>I guess you should have offer money for his credit.

In my communications with him, he never asked for that. He asked for specific stock that he approved of. I got him that stock and shipped him it was nice, rare and healthy inverts. I never saw his hatchet job coming, but found out how he got influenced to do it though. I did not screw him over what-so-ever in any shape, form or fashion and I resent him portraying me the way he has. In a trade, where we have had Pat Kanes and the like with hobbyist missing money, animals and getting bad stock, he tried to lump me in that that crap and I resent it very much. That's not me. That's not how I do business. Hundreds of customers and postive reviews of thousands of transactions for over 15 yrs. speak volumes about my bus. ethics and character. David has the influence of some low ball, dirty competition to fuel this agenda. Every day more info leaks out about that and shows it's ugly head for what it is.

>he was a nut like you call him, which I think is uncalled for.

You should listen to his irrational, nut job, threatening voice messages that he left me. You'd have a totally different opinion then.

 

[sick4x4]

look, i reserve judgement and from what i have witnessed can only base my judgement on what is perceived to be fact...

Todd, David B. brought up a great point... is everything on your stock list in your possession or do you try to generate interest before you obtain the specimens as David says??? as i cant belive you would list anything you didn't have in your possession 4-sale if you didnt already have them and please remember, honesty is the best policy...i have nothing against you per-say, other than that you are name calling and would like to have this behind us all...

i just dont see how so many people are conspiring against you (dealers, importers and customers)??? look, i for one cant and dont want to know that side of our hobby.. if at all it exists but from what i have seen, you are an upstanding guy...though as of late, that imagine i had is alittle tarnished. there are always 2 sides to a story and then there is the truth, i'm just trying to understand..

i seen your above response.....it was before i posted..

wayne

 

[xenesthis]

clarification

>is everything on your stock list in your possession.

No. Reread my previous post. I have a list that shows what's in-stock. That's my text version price list. That is what store credit can be used for. It's written very simple to understand. David could not no matter how many times it was explained to him. I have never had anybody have a problem with it until him. I have hundreds of transactions of hobbyists using credit and me shipping them nice stock and being very happy to post hundreds of positive reviews all over the net for years. Trying to twist and portray my business and/or credit policy to make me look bad is wrong in every way.

I also notice a certain West Coast/CA/SCABIES bias going on here.....Also, a CA invert dealer bad-mouthed me to David and influenced David's agenda with his smear campaign - dully noted. Lots of dirty politics are involved with David's smear campaign. It's a lot more complicated that what it appears on the surface. David is being used indirectly in a sort of proxy war. There are too many dealers in our trade, so some dirtly politics are being played to try to reduce that number for the whole mightly $$$. Customers and friend's of mine that deal with some of them have talked to to me and let me know what's going on. I'm not surprised, but it's very, very disappointing to see the sinking lows some can do.

P.S. One SCABIES member is ratting out the rat pack for me. I knew there was some bad stuff going on.

 

[sick4x4]

now i take offence to the west coast, scabies bias your talking about..look i don't take business personally, its just that business.. but don't drag my group into your rants the actions of a couple don't reflect the intentions of the whole..the reasons probably alot of west coasters are here, is because David does business out here and is banned from AB....i dont have to remind you of that...soo ofcoarse only people dealing with him can post their experiences... much like only people can post reviews about you, that deal with you.....this isn't high school and your just as guilty of personal attacks as the above.. regardless if the person no longer frequents this forum.....you both had a disagreement and the reviews show as such, end of story...but attacking someone like you have is uncalled for and should of been handled off-site..our hobby is under enough scrutiny as it is with out conspiraciey theories and global take over plans:wall:

wayne

 

[xenesthis]

David used SCABIES

sick4x4,

Let's get this straight, David Shur bragged about how SCABIES was against me and now, I have found out how that was set up and influenced. I don't know much about the group, but I have found out how certain people in that group have tried to influence others against me, so yeah, I take offense to that especially when I find out that some dirty competition politics are being used to do that with. Also, let's get this straight, David Shur attacked me on over four sites. He left me crazy, irrational and threatening phone messages, and because he attacked my character and ethics, he made it personal and then I found out how he was influenced, so why, dont' I get a right to defend myself? This guy went overboard and way out of line. If your hear his voice messages he left me, you would have a very changed opinion of him. I welcome SCABIES contributions to our hobby and glad to help them out however that I can, but I do not like it when I hear a CA dealer bad-mouthed me to David and got his goat to smear me and David mentioned SCABIES frequently in his communications as though the group is in his pocket for his agenda towards me. Yep, I got a problem with that. If you were in my shoes, you would to.

 

[sick4x4]

Todd,
again, there are reviews much like we have here on AB. maybe you can not defend yourself like you can here but the same goes for David. if someone had a bad experience, they let people know. just as they would here..nothing has changed and no there isn't a huge conspiracy against you in scabies. we are a small group, maybe numbering in the lower hundred. we are not an army against you...

some still and will continue to do business with you but again its based on a persons experience, nothing more or less.....i would be careful to listen to whom ever is feeding you so-called inside information because all this cloak and dagger stuff needs to end. this ca dealer still continues to boggle my mind, as the ones i know would not steep to that level nor would any importer i know... we all need to wash our hands of this and move on, plain an simple. as i bet the MODS are tried of it as it is....

wayne

 

[xenesthis]

chips fall where they may

>this ca dealer still continues to boggle my mind, as the ones i know would not steep to that level nor would any importer i know...

David didn't have a problem until two phone calls with both. He came away from those two communications with an agenda. There is a lot you don't know about this. Remember Murphy's law regarding that.

Are you right. David attacked. I defended. Let the chips fall where they may, but if his friend's post to attack me for David's proxy war, this spartan is ready. The mods will have to stop the attacks and these threads will be what they were intended to be.

 

[sick4x4]

lol didn't the Spartans die off??? ;P i wouldn't expect anything less...

wayne

 

[xenesthis]

with honor

With their honor. That's a word and a concept few today in our secular, progressive society understand. It's not all about $$$ or what's in it for you and what somebody can do for you and what you are entitled to. Ethics, character, trust, loyalty, principles, respect, and yes, honor do still matter especially in life and business. Sad, many don't even know what those words and concepts mean now-a-days.

 

[LaurynSS]

Since he cannot defend himself, my dad is wondering to whom you are referring to. I was listening when YOU brought up these people, and to dare you to name names like YOU did on the phone. We don't think you have the guts to repeat who you talk about behind their backs:

1. The west coast dealer that supposedly bad-mouthed you.
2. The wholesaler that you tried to pit against another major dealer. By the way, he called THAT dealer AND wholesaler who denied everything you said.
3. Your SCABIES "informant".

I thought this tidbit between you and Steve Nunn sounds familiar. Especially the 18th post down. Very entertaining:
http://www.the-t-store.co.uk/forum/index.php?showtopic=7669&hl=

With their honor. That's a word and concept few today in our secular, progressive society understand. It's not all about $$$ or what's in it for you and what somebody can do for you and what you are entitled to. Ethics, character, trust, loyalty, principles, respect, and yes, honor do still matter especially in life and business. Sad, many don't even know what those words and concepts mean now-a-days.

I don't know what to say about this coming from YOU.

 

[xenesthis]

proxy war

Wayne,

See what I mean. The proxy war continues. Ban David, but no problem he can talk via Lauryn. Keep in mind, she was being this attack dog before, so nice trick.

As for names, David tried his best not to actually say their names on the phone, but he was playing a little game and it was obvious which people he was referring to. He did explicitely name one. The CA dealer. I filled in the blank on the wholesaler after he referred to him and things involving him many times in the call and he did not dispute that. I'm listening to a few people reveal some more things to me and then it will all come out in the open. Also, David is trying to pull into the mix and stir up the pot with a dealer that has nothing to do with anything related to this David Shur situation. Nothing and I communicated that to that dealer tonight letting them know what David is trying to do.

Name the SCABIES rat? You got to be kidding me. Why do that? They are letting me know what' s going on and their identity will not be revealed or that source of inside info will dry up.

Bringing in Steve Nunn's name. Shame on you Lauryn. Shame.

See, Wayne, the proxy war continues. David's banned, but he can talk through Lauryn to continue their agenda and hatchet job.

Mods? David has found a way back into the game.