Damon diadema and medius comparison

[JohnDapiaoen]

Just to get it out of the way, this isn't the most ideal way to ID damon sp. but I feel there's some obvious differences between the two sp. that should be addressed.

Here's the dorsal comparison between two juvenile Damon sp.

diadema- left; medius- right




Both are females and have the same body length.
• Appears medius has longer legs including the anteniform legs.

•Diadema have a complete set of 3 solid light colored bands that completely wrap around legs II, III, & IV. In contrast medius bands don't completely wrap around and the 3rd band closest to the knee is a shade of red as juveniles which almost dissappear upon maturity.

•Defensive behavior between the two species differ as well. My medius are much more defensive and have an interesting pushup behavior to go along with baring the pedipalps when disturbed.

Damon diadema


Damon medius


-JohnD.

 

[Nir Avraham]

D. medius is an amazing species! Got this pair 3 weeks ago

 

[aphono]

Awesome pictures and observations. My diademas are about 1-1/2 year old CB and the medius are WC adults. Noticed the banding on legs, however didn't realize the leg length difference yet though so thanks for new bit of detail.

The medius were mostly grayish/bluish dark colors when picked up. Post molt there was a significant change in color to tan-brown shades. Is this another difference between medius and diadema? Picture of a medius couple months post molt- so it's not merely fresh molt colors:

View media item 51312

 

[JohnDapiaoen]

Awesome pictures and observations. My diademas are about 1-1/2 year old CB and the medius are WC adults. Noticed the banding on legs, however didn't realize the leg length difference yet though so thanks for new bit of detail.

The medius were mostly grayish/bluish dark colors when picked up. Post molt there was a significant change in color to tan-brown shades. Is this another difference between medius and diadema? Picture of a medius couple months post molt- so it's not merely fresh molt colors:

View media item 51312

I haven't thought of observing their post molt coloration though I dont think I've seen a diadema tan in color so its possible that's unique to medius.

-JohnD.

 

[aphono]

Think I'm seeing the start of brown-tan coloration on your medius? Another female molted late last week, again to colors identical to my picture.

Have you noticed hunting behavior differences? Sometimes the medius are extremely aggressive in pursuing prey. Openly showing themselves to the prey- jerking straight up at detection, running at it then actively chasing with repeated grabbing attempts around their cages. Nothing subtle about it. Haven't seen the diademas do it to this extreme- so far these primarily use stealth & subtle tricks with their whips to manipulate prey, at most they might make a swift short movement to get a clearer aim at prey. The medius also use this though.

 

[kylepeach]

Awesome pictures and observations. My diademas are about 1-1/2 year old CB and the medius are WC adults. Noticed the banding on legs, however didn't realize the leg length difference yet though so thanks for new bit of detail.

The medius were mostly grayish/bluish dark colors when picked up. Post molt there was a significant change in color to tan-brown shades. Is this another difference between medius and diadema? Picture of a medius couple months post molt- so it's not merely fresh molt colors:

View media item 51312

How's their temperament? They attack / get defensive when being picked up?

 

[aphono]

How's their temperament? They attack / get defensive when being picked up?

I never handle so can't answer that. How they react to anything in general from inside their enclosures are the same. The medius occasional feeding behavior is about the only exception and even that might not be a real difference as my diademas about 1 to 1 1/2 yr juveniles. Not yet fully mature.

 

[sschind]

All along I thought I had D. diadema but you have me worried now. I just snapped a few quick pics of a few molts. I'm not sure if this is what I should be looking for.

 

[aphono]

Hope more knowledgeable persons will comment. Here is a picture for diadema vs variegatus showing the trochanter spikes found via google:

https://2img.net/h/i554.photobucket.../differencesdiademavariegatus_zpsc50b9910.jpg

To my eyes yours is looking good for diadema? But also learning here...

 

[sschind]

Hope more knowledgeable persons will comment. Here is a picture for diadema vs variegatus showing the trochanter spikes found via google:

https://2img.net/h/i554.photobucket.../differencesdiademavariegatus_zpsc50b9910.jpg

To my eyes yours is looking good for diadema? But also learning here...

Thanks for weighing in. When I was first comparing species I was not thinking medius at all and that's what lead me to think I had Diadema over variegatus but when medius was thrown in recently as a possibility the uncertainty set in.

 

[kylepeach]

Hope more knowledgeable persons will comment. Here is a picture for diadema vs variegatus showing the trochanter spikes found via google:

https://2img.net/h/i554.photobucket.../differencesdiademavariegatus_zpsc50b9910.jpg

To my eyes yours is looking good for diadema? But also learning here...

Thanks for weighing in. When I was first comparing species I was not thinking medius at all and that's what lead me to think I had Diadema over variegatus but when medius was thrown in recently as a possibility the uncertainty set in.

I think you might have D. medius. Check out @JohnDapiaoen original post too it's something to consider and how I determined mine were D. medius. Mine were leaning more towards D. variegatus but then found John's post and that was the last nail in the coffin.

How's their behavior? Temperament or defensiveness? They really skittish when you go to pick them up, and do they bear their pedipalps in response to being picked up? Do they do a "push-up" behavior when touched/disturbed?

 

[sschind]

I think you might have D. medius. Check out @JohnDapiaoen original post too it's something to consider and how I determined mine were D. medius. Mine were leaning more towards D. variegatus but then found John's post and that was the last nail in the coffin.

How's their behavior? Temperament or defensiveness? They really skittish when you go to pick them up, and do they bear their pedipalps in response to being picked up? Do they do a "push-up" behavior when touched/disturbed?

That's the thing, they are pretty laid back. The two I handle regularly at my shows show no signs of aggression whatsoever. the others don't really care to be picked up but they just run away and don't really show any signs of aggression. Like I said I had pretty much ruled out variegatus and thought I had diadema but now I am not sure at all. My original pair was purchased about 5 years ago as WC adults and were simply labeled tailless whip scorpion. D didema was the only species I had ever heard of at the time so that's what I though they were and that's what I have been calling them. If Cold Blood isn't following this thread I may have to notify him that he has to change his tank labels

 

[kylepeach]

That's the thing, they are pretty laid back. The two I handle regularly at my shows show no signs of aggression whatsoever. the others don't really care to be picked up but they just run away and don't really show any signs of aggression. Like I said I had pretty much ruled out variegatus and thought I had diadema but now I am not sure at all. My original pair was purchased about 5 years ago as WC adults and were simply labeled tailless whip scorpion. D didema was the only species I had ever heard of at the time so that's what I though they were and that's what I have been calling them. If Cold Blood isn't following this thread I may have to notify him that he has to change his tank labels

Hmmmm. What a "diailemma" HAAA............

The only thing that still doesn't have me convinced is that they have the red bands on their rear legs. D. diadema should have solid white bands on all their legs, and I'm just not seeing it.

 

[pannaking22]

I've got a key to Damon, so I'll check that later today and see if I can figure out the species. I should at least be able to figure out the species group.

 

[sschind]

Hmmmm. What a "diailemma" HAAA............

The only thing that still doesn't have me convinced is that they have the red bands on their rear legs. D. diadema should have solid white bands on all their legs, and I'm just not seeing it.

That's the main thing that has me questioning it as well.

 

[JohnDapiaoen]

Can you get a pick of the specimen instead of the molt?

-JohnD.

 

[Banshee05]

Differntiating diadema and medius is quite easy: all eastern African Damon members DO NOT HAVE ventral sac covers and all western African Damon species DO HAVEthis V sac covers-easy to tell apart.
And again, regarding the endless story about diadema or variegatus: I have never seen real variegatus from Kenya/ Tanzania in the pet trade, NEVER, i have mine variegatus and annulatipes from South Africa, where they are more abundant. But, if you have seen once a real variegatus, without any scientific knowledge, you would never mix them up again… these are two different stories. It's a shame that traders still try to sell this species.

 

[aphono]

Differntiating diadema and medius is quite easy: all eastern African Damon members DO NOT HAVE ventral sac covers and all western African Damon species DO HAVEthis V sac covers-easy to tell apart.

Is there an illustration of the ventral sac covers vs lack of on specimens without eggs? I get the visual difference on females carrying eggs but would like to know if the signs would be present on females without eggs and are there any signs of it on males?

 

[DrNormalman]

Can someone please help me? a year ago I bougth one as Damon variegatus to a guy, but now I have no idea if its variegatus, medius, or diadema, it pursuits prey when its hungry, and it isnt aggresive with direct hand contact.

 

[mantisfan101]

Looks like a medius to me.