Cross breeds !

[jeff1962]

I noticed today that someone is selling cross bred T.s in the for sale section.This is the listing." FS/T: Incredibly Large List Of Tarantulas, Widows, & Other Unusual inverts". According to them its a cross between a B. Vagans and a B. Albop. I have not been in the hobby long but I sure hate to see this. This was one thing I like about keeping T.s the hobby has not been diluted with this kind of crap. unlike so many others.

 

[GailC]

At least they are selling them as a cross and not trying to pawn them off as pure.

 

[_bob_]

you should go buy it

 

[bluegootty]

i actually want to see a pic..but not gona waste money to buy dead end T...that's all folks...

 

[Staley]

I think it would be really awesome to see a P.Rufilata Mixed with an A.versicolor Wonder what It would look like.

 

[Lucara]

I dont think you can cross genus or w/e its called. It would be like breeding a blondi to a chaco. I dont think its possible.

 

[billopelma]

It is quite possible as these are from the same genus, this particular mix are sometimes referred to as 'albogans'...


Bill

 

[Lucara]

I would like to see someone breed a pokie to an avic w/o the pokie ripping it to shreds.

 

[GartenSpinnen]

Honest to God why do we need hybrids??? There is so many unique and beautiful species of tarantulas out there i see no need for it. All its going to do is cause problems in the future for everybody. But if someone HAS to cross them they should destroy or keep the offspring for themselves, don't sell them off. The only good thing i have to say about this is at LEAST they are selling them as what they are... i hope they are not fertile and cannot reproduce! If it was a case where the Ts crossed were infertile and could not reproduce i would see a lot less problems with it. I just worry about messy bloodlines in the future. But anyways, what the hells the point of it in the first place???? Bragging rights???
-Nate

 

[Lucara]

I agree with Shammer.

 

[Nich]

Someone should take this arguement to a dog or cat thread, maybe to kingsnake or fauna on one of the ball threads.....

 

[jeff1962]

Honest to God why do we need hybrids??? There is so many unique and beautiful species of tarantulas out there i see no need for it. All its going to do is cause problems in the future for everybody. But if someone HAS to cross them they should destroy or keep the offspring for themselves, don't sell them off. The only good thing i have to say about this is at LEAST they are selling them as what they are... i hope they are not fertile and cannot reproduce! If it was a case where the Ts crossed were infertile and could not reproduce i would see a lot less problems with it. I just worry about messy bloodlines in the future. But anyways, what the hells the point of it in the first place???? Bragging rights???
-Nate

Could not have said it better myself ! The problem with hybrids is if enough of them get out there in the wrong hands it is bound to case problems. For instance, if someone decides to leave the hobby they are going more interested in just unloading there stock and not so interested in doing it properly.

 

[bliss]

you folks just now realizing this?


it's been for sale for a while now. i believe i actually pm'ed the person the first or second day the T was originally posted for sale. i also believe i explained to him that it may make a few people irritated but, oh well.


i actually don't care if he is selling it. as long as no one tries to breed it... we'll be ok. if someone just takes it and keeps it as a pet without trying to breed it, it's all good with me.


most hybrids come out ugly anyways, imo... MOST.


vagans x albopilosum = "albogans" because they are both brachy's. their genetics are similar, so they can produce offspring (though i've heard that most of the offspring are either weak or turn out unhealthy, or die at an early age).

but versicolor x P rufilata = not possible. i think Staley knew this, he was just being hypothetical about "what if we could". lol, and YES, the rufi would tear the versi to shreds.

dan

 

[jeff1962]

" you folks just now realizing this? " Guess I don't spend as much time looking in the for sale section as some.

 

[JayzunBoget]

You guys might be surprised by what can and has been done with hybridization.
I don't think the Pokie/Avic thing would work even if manually insemminated, but stranger things have happened.
The jungle morph cornsnake is a hybrid between a cornsnake (elaphe guttata guttata) and a california kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula californiae). For those unfamiliar, a kingsnake would be nearly as likely to eat a cornsnake as the Pokie the Avic.
Either the taxonomy is wildly inaccurate or the old high school bio definition of species is.
BTW I have been told that they are produced via natural insemination and the offspring are viable and breed true to the "holotype".

 

[JayzunBoget]

To be clear about my own thoughts on the matter of intentional hybridizing, I think that what has happened to cornsnakes is a damn shame.

 

[Moltar]

Someone should take this arguement to a dog or cat thread, maybe to kingsnake or fauna on one of the ball threads.....

Not even a similar issue. All breeds of dogs and cats are sub-species of the same sp. A B albopilosum and B vagans are distinctly seperate species within the same genus. It's more like breeding a horse and donkey to get a mule or breeding a bobcat with a housecat. Verrry sketchy for future bloodlines. With such a small captive population and such large egg clutches it would only take one misidentified sac to screw up a species forever.

Either way, with hundreds of different true species of tarantulas to pick from, why would anybody want a hybrid and all the BS that goes along with it?

 

[sparular]

The idea of species as animals that are able to breed is not accurate (school lies to you sometimes). The definition of a species is less concrete and is based primarily on morphology (how the animal looks and the shape of its parts). However if 2 populations of animal can not interbred, they are not the same species.
As far as interbreeding, it would be a shame to see wild type animals overtaken in the hobby by hybrids. That is the biggest danger in my opinion. Particularly if the hybrid looks very similar to either base species, in which case, there is little point in maintaining a hybrid line. If the hybrid looks radically different from known spiders, I see no real harm.

 

[bliss]

The jungle morph cornsnake is a hybrid between a cornsnake (elaphe guttata guttata) and a california kingsnake (Lampropeltis getula californiae). For those unfamiliar, a kingsnake would be nearly as likely to eat a cornsnake as the Pokie the Avic.

good point, but please remember that Invertebrates are way different than reptiles.

To be clear about my own thoughts on the matter of intentional hybridizing, I think that what has happened to cornsnakes is a damn shame.

agreed. intential hybridization of ANY animal is a damn shame.

" you folks just now realizing this? " Guess I don't spend as much time looking in the for sale section as some.

i may have gotten rid of my collection and gotten out of the hobby, but it doesn't hurt to still look around does it?



dan

 

[hamfoto]

Hybridization in reptiles has been around for quite awhile...in tarantulas not so much.
The problem with tarantulas is that people have been selling hybrids as something other than what they really were...
I don't see a problem with hybrids as long as people keep them named correctly and don't mix up "original" bloodlines, unless they also name these separately.
The other problem is that in reptiles common names are acceptable and appropriate...not so much in tarantulas. This is what causes problems...included with the fact that reptile taxonomy is much more worked out than in tarantulas.
You can't be "for" cool looking hybrid and artifically selected herps...and against it in tarantulas. Doesn't make sense.
I like cool looking snakes, like piebald ball pythons...but when it comes to tarantulas I don't want any hybrids...I prefer known localities and bloodlines.
And...breeding a corn snake with a kingsnake is not at all equal to breeding a pokie with and avic. A more realistic relationship (based upon relatedness) is breeding an Avicularia with a Iridopelma.
And anyone who owns a dog or cat shouldn't make judgements about hybridization of other animals (again as long as the animals are correctly named)...what do you think all the dog breeds are???

And as a side note...Brachypelma albopilosum X Brachypelma vagans crosses have been sold here in the US as Brachypelma angustum (via a nefarious breeder in Europe). So all of us with B. angustum here in the US don't really know what we have!

Chris