cross breeding

[green_bottle_04]

while i dont totally disagree with either side of this arguement i will have to say something on both...

-if there were no hybridization then we wouldnt have alot of the designer morphs that we see in snakes...i.e. blood balls, diamond/carpet crosses, etc. etc. most (if not all) produce fertile offspring. however these x breeds are listed as such and not as a species all their own.

-on the flip side of that i agree that x breeding can be a very bad thing in that if people arent careful we COULD breed the orriginal animals rite out of existance. (this too has been seen among various snakes)

i think that if people DID cross breed them...then they should be listed as just that...a cross breed. and if they are labeled as such it shouldnt be a problem. when it really comes down to it...people are going to do what they want. and it really IS only a matter of time before there are tons of hybrids being produced in the trade...as someone already stated...its already been done with Pokies. so whats next...? brachy. ruhanui crossed with a brachy. boehmei? it might produce a very attractive offspring...whos to say?

 

[Nich]

This coming from the person that spelled Counselors wrong in their quote...... ROFL!!!

Didnt know she was russian, i assumed it was random "ebonics"....lol. I live in the bay area, its everywhere and spreading beyond control..... I appologize anastasia, Im уверенное вы ненавидите меня теперь, Я нахожу ту зону sacremento для того чтобы иметь самых красивейших женщины где-либо! Seriously....:worship: The fact of the matter is not about crossbreeding now, or the hobby in general, it was a question which everyone had politically danced around and made no light of.....= ) Crossbreeding hapens in nature and in the enclosure, all current and aspiring breeders on a commercial scale will not condone crossbreeding. So if the average hobbyist wants to then it will do no harm.

 

[Nich]

Excuse my poor version of "Russian"....

 

[ShadowBlade]

it was a question which everyone had politically danced around and made no light of.....= )

I believe we made the point quite clear.

Crossbreeding hapens in nature and in the enclosure, all current and aspiring breeders on a commercial scale will not condone crossbreeding. So if the average hobbyist wants to then it will do no harm.

The 'crossbreeding' that happens in nature is what taxonomists are trying to weed out. As I pointed out, we have no clear definition of 'species' anyway, so heck with knowing what specimens are natural hybrids.
To take species in captivity and purposely hybridize them will most certainly do harm. "Average hobbyists" sell too. Just because commercial dealers wouldn't sell hybrids (They have though, whether or not on purpose) doesn't mean the hybrids wouldn't leek into the hobby.
Many of us breeders get males from 'average hobbyists'.

-Sean

 

[Nich]

Shadow.....
No it wasnt made quite clear, more debate and philosophy than any direct answers...as usual..lol. The point can be taken and has been. No taxonomist are not trying to "weed out" anything. Rather id them as such and move one if thats what you meant. Its okay, I love the automatic forming of a union in the use of we. This is an incredibly touchy subject as its an opinion base with moral contamination and noob interjection, makes for a good read but always ends them same. I've cross bred Scolopendra with viable offspring....not single one looked different than the "female". I highly doubt and crazy color morphs would arise from crossbreeding. I think It would be very interesting to see though as long as they were sold as labled cross breeds.

 

[ShadowBlade]

No taxonomist are not trying to "weed out" anything. Rather id them as such and move one if thats what you meant.

No, wrong. Considering how extremely difficult it is to successfully describe species of arachnids, they can't just "ID all the hybrids and move on". Hybrids must be weeded out to classify the 'species'.

I think It would be very interesting to see though as long as they were sold as labled cross breeds.

Exactly my view. I have no problem with responsible people playing around with it and spending money on different males feeding his females until he eventually gets a pair to mate, and even rarer, gets living offspring.

But it must be pointed out that average hobbyists can poison the 'bloodlines' by creating hybrids and selling them as 'species'.

-Sean

 

[funnylori]

With such jewels as tarantulas in the world, I think we should take care to keep them genetically sound and healthy. I would hate to see this hobby turn into the freak show (no offense to mammal lovers/breeders) that dog and cat breeding has become...

Tarantulas are being threatened in the wild, and we barely even know them yet. It would not be wise to begin degrading their natural form, as we are already the cause of their substantial loss of habitat and exploitation. And, we still have no idea what kind of biological effects inbreeding has on them, let alone hybridization. Yet, on the same turn, hybridization IF carried out in a highly scientific and controlled manner (i.e. not for general pet trade, but more of a research institutional style and the offspring destroyed) may give us a better understanding of tarantula genetics.

I believe that the topic of hybridization is covered quite well and concisely in "The Tarantula Keeper's Guide" by Schultz and Schultz, and that any individual seriously interested in hybridization of tarantulas should read it and consider all possibilities very carefully. Nature is not very forgiving when it comes to our mistakes, and we should all tread carefully.

 

[Nich]

Hybrids must be weeded out to classify the 'species'.

-Sean

I see your point, but maybe an actual taxonomist should make the statment....lol. It does happen and is studied and documented all the same but with proper notification. Weeding out means nothing, isolating the factors of relavance to Id them does, then move on...thats how it goes. There arent enough naturrally occuring hybrids to have to activley weed them out, more of a side factor with cases being far between. Besides with the chaos of it I read the headlines and stay awya from iffy sp....they are reclassified everytime I think I've got em down. Where's the nearest red phone, I need to talk to Batman&Robin....

 

[Nitibus]

With such jewels as tarantulas in the world, I think we should take care to keep them genetically sound and healthy. I would hate to see this hobby turn into the freak show (no offense to mammal lovers/breeders) that dog and cat breeding has become...
.

Isn't that the problem with dog and cat breeding is that they have " purifed " the bloodline through so much inbreeding that many purebreds are VERY likely to have genetic problems. They knew nothing of genetics, and started with too small a gene pool. I've never seen hip dysplasia in a mutt ...

I'd still like to see a docile cobolt blue that doesn't burrow itself away !

 

[Scorp guy]

I'd still like to see a docile cobolt blue that doesn't burrow itself away !

G. rosea+ Blue Spraypaint.