Costa Rica, Monteverde & Santa Elena Cloud Forest

[Justyn]

I was fortunate to see some Megaphobema mesomelas while in the cloud forests of Costa Rica. A beautiful and large species. Very common there! I saw them in borrows along paths and game trails and in holes within logs.

A burrow!

Digging.

Sucess!

 

[Justyn]

Along a stream.

Looking in the trees for aboreal wildlife. I was about 30' up there.

General view of what the rainforest looks like.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Wow, you completely leveled her burrow?!?!?
Was this in a national park?

 

[Justyn]

Yes, I dug out one specimen for ID and photographs. With the soil being volcanic, on a slope, and quite porus the "water" trick would not have worked. I tried teasing her out with a twig, but no luck. As common as this species is in that range, digging out a single female certainly had no impact. I put her in a nice area afterwards to make a new burrow under a rotten log.

No, it was not in a National Park, it was on private land.

I am sure illegal smuggling of many of the species offered has done real damage to many populations.

Wow, you completely leveled her burrow?!?!?
Was this in a national park?

 

[UrbanJungles]

Yes, I dug out one specimen for ID and photographs. With the soil being volcanic, on a slope, and quite porus the "water" trick would not have worked. I tried teasing her out with a twig, but no luck. As common as this species is in that range, digging out a single female certainly had no impact. I put her in a nice area afterwards to make a new burrow under a rotten log.

No, it was not in a National Park, it was on private land.

I am sure illegal smuggling of many of the species offered has done real damage to many populations.

Just as a general rule of wildlife etiquette, you should leave an area looking much like you left it which include returning flipped rocks and logs to the original position. Digging up burrows and large swaths of earth are not considered proper outdoor etiquette. I'm sure to you it's no big deal but that big girl has probably been living there for many years...and now it's all gone in a day.

 

[Justyn]

Danny, I study wildlife. I report oberservation to a wide variety of sources. I needed to know the ID of the spider in question, I needed to know their habitat in the wild. If I dig up a burrow, it is because I thought it was a wise chocie, for the overall good. It's not like I dug up the borrow for pure enjoyment. Now really, is this needed?

Just as a general rule of wildlife etiquette, you should leave an area looking much like you left it which include returning flipped rocks and logs to the original position. Digging up burrows and large swaths of earth are not considered proper outdoor etiquette. I'm sure to you it's no big deal but that big girl has probably been living there for many years...and now it's all gone in a day.

 

[UrbanJungles]

Danny, I study wildlife. I report oberservation to a wide variety of sources. I needed to know the ID of the spider in question, I needed to know their habitat in the wild. If I dig up a burrow, it is because I thought it was a wise chocie, for the overall good. It's not like I dug up the borrow for pure enjoyment. Now really, is this needed?

First off, relax. You aren't being attacked no need to get defensive...just having a discussion.

Secondly...as a biologist I'm curious as to what wildlife study you were involved in that gives you the reason you needed to decimate what I consider a sensitive habitat (I've been to see mesomelas in person too)...there are certainly way better field methods that can be used if you needed a positve ID.

There are very few reasons you should have to destroy the home of a long lived species that shows strong site fidelity. I can't understand what "source" you have that would encourage this especially in CR where they are awfully protective about their native fauna.

 

[sick4x4]

Just as a general rule of wildlife etiquette, you should leave an area looking much like you left it which include returning flipped rocks and logs to the original position. Digging up burrows and large swaths of earth are not considered proper outdoor etiquette. I'm sure to you it's no big deal but that big girl has probably been living there for many years...and now it's all gone in a day.

i tend agree, if your not collecting an animal then leaving it like you found it is the best policy..if you look at many of the BTS documenting trips, you will notice they dont destroy burrows just to document a specimen.. if you have been documenting wildlife like you stated, you should know this...patience is the best policy...im not trying to stir up trouble but im not understanding the logic behind it???? i did enjoy the pictures but there is a better way...

wayne

 

[Fran]

Secondly...as a biologist I'm curious as to what wildlife study you were involved in that gives you the reason you needed to decimate what I consider a sensitive habitat

.

Well , as a Geographist, I can tell you that the fact that he dug up the entire T burrow is not gonna be a thread for the specie( If he DID put porpperly back the T) .
There are certainly better ways to ID a Tm but we dont know for how long Justyn was trying to dig the T out, and how many other ways he tried before.

I believe in the respect and protection of the wild life and specially these beautifull animals, but if we are gonna take this to the propper place,and use that pattern of thinking, then none of us , or at least a very small % of us, should be able to have these animals in tanks in our homes.

 

[sick4x4]

Well , as a Geographist, I can tell you that the fact that he dug up the entire T burrow is not gonna be a thread for the specie( If he DID put porpperly back the T) .
There are certainly better ways to ID a Tm but we dont know for how long Justyn was trying to dig the T out, and how many other ways he tried before.

I believe in the respect and protection of the wild life and specially these beautifull animals, but if we are gonna take this to the propper place,and use that pattern of thinking, then none of us , or at least a very small % of us, should be able to have these animals in tanks in our homes.

i think he replaced it in another location??? but Fran, your last comment didn't make sense why shouldn't we have these in our home??? with many specimens being CB, i dont really see how owning one would be that bad??

to be honest the only way i'd question owning a T, is if you dont plan on breeding them...hobbyist that own T's for the sake of owning them or just to have one in his/her collection, does more harm in the preservation of the species.. then merrily possessing a rare species...imo

wayne

 

[UrbanJungles]

Sometimes it's just about respect.
I think this thread is losing focus.

 

[Justyn]

I feel I've done nothing wrong. I do not normally dig up burrows, but I did. It's just a tarantula, and I gave it a new home. Would I do it agian, yes I would. It's much more educating and interesting to see these species in the wild and photograph them, then simply keeping them in captivity. Even if I dug the tarantula out of the burrow for pure enjoyment, I don't see the difference between that and keeping the species in captivity. VERY rarely do we keep species in captivity for their benifit, we keep them for enjoyment and educating our knowledge about them.

If we are sitting her on an online forum going after me for digging up one burrow, perhaps we lost the purpose of why we are here? I have seen no one yet ask the temps, elevation, burrow length, nothing. You are just just going after me for something I am sure you would have enjoyed just as much.

 

[UrbanJungles]

It's just a tarantula, and I gave it a new home. Would I do it agian, yes I would. It's much more educating and interesting to see these species in the wild and photograph them, then simply keeping them in captivity.

Your first sentence speaks volumes of your ethics as a naturalist. No one is contesting keeping tarantulas in captivity. It's also not your place to "give it" a new home when it had a perfectly good one to begin with that you leveled.

Even if I dug the tarantula out of the burrow for pure enjoyment, I don't see the difference between that and keeping the species in captivity. VERY rarely do we keep species in captivity for their benifit, we keep them for enjoyment and educating our knowledge about them.

As Wayne stated if you intended to keep the T its one thing, but to dig it up for no reason other than ID is just not cool.

If we are sitting her on an online forum going after me for digging up one burrow, perhaps we lost the purpose of why we are here? I have seen no one yet ask the temps, elevation, burrow length, nothing. You are just just going after me for something I am sure you would have enjoyed just as much.

I'd never get enjoyment from taking a shovel to a T's burrow.

 

[Rydog]

i'll be the first to say that these are cool and interesting pics, there are worse things than digging up a T's burrow.

 

[GoTerps]

I'd never get enjoyment from taking a shovel to a T's burrow.

The adult female Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" that I see on your page, is that CB? ... locals in Malaysia cut down the ENTIRE tree just to get the spider out of it for people in the hobby to buy.

I do understand your point Danny, and I think you've gotten in across enough. Lets leave it be.


M. mesomelas are quite common in Costa Rica, and can be found in many places, not just up in the cloud forests. Not that this makes his actions right or wrong... just pointing that out.


Hi Justyn,

I study wildlife. I report oberservation to a wide variety of sources. I needed to know the ID of the spider in question, I needed to know their habitat in the wild. If I dig up a burrow, it is because I thought it was a wise chocie, for the overall good. It's not like I dug up the borrow for pure enjoyment.

Who did you report you observations to? What "overall good" came from your observations? I'm not putting you down, I'm asking.

Take care,

Eric

 

[Justyn]

I have numorus articles published on wildlife and maintaining species in captivity in a wide variety of national and international publications. Some of these are magazines you can find in your big box stores. I have yet to publish an article on M. mesomelas, but I will do so when I get additional photographs of their life cycle.

Hi Justyn,



Who did you report you observations to? What "overall good" came from your observations? I'm not putting you down, I'm asking.

Take care,

Eric

 

[sick4x4]

I have numorus articles published on wildlife and maintaining species in captivity in a wide variety of national and international publications. Some of these are magazines you can find in your big box stores. I have yet to publish an article on M. mesomelas, but I will do so when I get additional photographs of their life cycle.

you never answered his question:wall:

 

[UrbanJungles]

Although it's true there are worse things that tearing up a burrow, I think it's the attitude that it's being done in the name of science is what bothers me.

I also would like to know what publications you've made contributions to as well, the only references I can find on Justyn Miller are internet posts about your bad business dealings.

And Eric...my Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" is indeed CB although I do have a few WC animals as well and see your point. I'll let it rest as I think I've said my peace.

 

[Rydog]

I'll play the devils advocate on this one, there are numerous pharmaceutical corporations that test things on animals and in some cases do very unnecessary things in the name of science. That said, I do not see any justification for the uprooted burrow when there are Numerous mesomales in the area I know because I have been to monteverde and seen this sp. there. I dont see what you learned from this exercise other than that they live in burrows. I'd be interested in reading your paper on your results.

 

[Justyn]

Well, I've written articles for Reptiles Magazine, FAMA (Freshwater And Marine Aquarium magazine), Aquarium fish, Cichlid News, Ponds, and a bunch of international publications I can't think of at the moment (and hard to say).

As for the name of science I've regulary published in various scientific journals on oberservations of herps. I have yet to be published in any invert journals, but will eb working with a few people ont he descriptions of new invert species from Bolivia in the next couple of years.

Although it's true there are worse things that tearing up a burrow, I think it's the attitude that it's being done in the name of science is what bothers me.

I also would like to know what publications you've made contributions to as well, the only references I can find on Justyn Miller are internet posts about your bad business dealings.

And Eric...my Cyriopagopus sp. "blue" is indeed CB although I do have a few WC animals as well and see your point. I'll let it rest as I think I've said my peace.