cat attack on my emperor?

[Myla Brian]

yesterday, my mother accompanied me to the reptile store and let me pick whatever i wanted as a christmas gift. i was completely starstruck with the emperor scorpions they had there, and i quickly opted to take a large female home. all was fine and well until i left that night to bring in the new year with my friends. my mother called me at about 12:45 and told me that not only was the scorpion outside of its enclosure (a ten-gallon glass tank with a sliding mesh lid) but the cat had it cornered. when i got home, my dad had moved the scorpion back to the cage, but there was a lot of sticky clear fluid in the corner where it had stood off against the cat. the cat had shown a lot of interest in the critter since we brought it home, constantly trying to get a good look into the cage. we think that she had hopped on top of the cage, hopped off, and the lid slid open enough for her to fish out the scorp and hop off the table. not sure what happened after that. upon examination of the scorpion, i couldn't immediately see anything wrong. she looked perfectly healthy and wasn't covered in fluid at all. i did notice that her tail looked a little crooked, but nothing more than that. this morning, her pinchers look as though something has dried on them, like glue. her tail is curled, but is on the ground next to her. nothing else seems wrong, except for her tail and the fact that she is acting extremely aggressive when i try to look at her.

im very worried for her, i feel like an inadequate pet owner. i cannot see anywhere she would be bleeding from, but she is not acting well. please help!

 

[NYAN]

I can’t see anything immediately wrong with the scorpion, but I do see some things wrong with the enclosure it’s in. Those wood chips are awful substrate for invertebrates. Rehouse it onto several inches of moist coco fiber to burrow in. It should also have something to hide under such as a piece of cork bark. If it has nowhere to hide, then that could be why it is so defensive.

If it does have an injury, it is important that it has access to water (without a sponge in it).

Oh, also, good on your parents for dealing with the situation like they did. They get bonus points from me.

 

[Myla Brian]

I can’t see anything immediately wrong with the scorpion, but I do see some things wrong with the enclosure it’s in. Those wood chips are awful substrate for invertebrates. Rehouse it onto several inches of moist coco fiber to burrow in. It should also have something to hide under such as a piece of cork bark. If it has nowhere to hide, then that could be why it is so defensive.

If it does have an injury, it is important that it has access to water (without a sponge in it).

Oh, also, good on your parents for dealing with the situation like they did. They get bonus points from me.

yes my parents are generally very supportive of my hobby and my mom is fascinated by (though slightly terrified of) all of my little friends : )) and the man at the shop insisted that we get the chips even though i typically house my other inverts on coco. i will switch her immediately. i took out her hide to take some photos of her and i promptly put it back. thank you for your input!!

 

[NYAN]

and the man at the shop insisted that we get the chips even though i typically house my other inverts on coco.

Generally you should not listen to what the man, woman, giraffe or anything else at the shop advises on animal care (even though I’m one of those). If you can return them, you absolutely should. It’s unfortunate that they upsell you like that.

What does the entire enclosure look like? I hope they didn’t sell you any gauges, lamps, heating rocks and so on.

 

[Myla Brian]

Generally you should not listen to what the man, woman, giraffe or anything else at the shop advises on animal care (even though I’m one of those). If you can return them, you absolutely should. It’s unfortunate that they upsell you like that.

What does the entire enclosure look like? I hope they didn’t sell you any gauges, lamps, heating rocks and so on.

i have a heating pad on the side of the enclosure, a faux rock hide in one corner and a water dish in the other. i am planning on putting in some additional fixtures for decor and to give ducky a more exciting habitat. i only purchased the chips because the bag was the same price as a brick of coco fiber and i figured i would give it a try. didn't realize it wasn't good for inverts : ((

 

[Alex99]

Generally you should not listen to what the man, woman, giraffe or anything else at the shop advises on animal care (even though I’m one of those). If you can return them, you absolutely should. It’s unfortunate that they upsell you like that.

What does the entire enclosure look like? I hope they didn’t sell you any gauges, lamps, heating rocks and so on.

Besides the fact that it dries the substrate whats so bad about a heat lamp.

 

[MantidMaster]

I would assume that the scorpion doesn’t require a lamp, as constant exposure to light isn’t good for the scorpion. As long as you maintain relative room temperature in house the scorpion should be fine, so the heat rocks aren’t really needed either. Marketing unnecessary stuff and possibly harmful stuff... I mean, it is their job, after all.

Myla, given that you have replaced the chips with the coco fiber already, you should be all set! Would love to see the end result of your efforts, keep us updated

 

[NYAN]

Besides the fact that it dries the substrate whats so bad about a heat lamp.

It dries everything and much of the time isn’t necessary. I use a lamp on my desert buthids, but it’s an infrared bulb.

 

[darkness975]

Besides the fact that it dries the substrate whats so bad about a heat lamp.

Scorpions are photosensitive. Normal light will affect them negatively which will lead to a decline in health, and UV light will outright kill them.

Lamps will also desiccate the Scorpion itself.

@Myla Brian The chela and telson of that Scorpion look like they have some kind of concerning crust or something on them. Any number of explanations could be the cause. The enclosure needs to be completely inaccessible to a cat. A shelf or some such location is not suitable. They can reach almost anywhere.

 

[mantisfan101]

No lamps, no wood pellets. Unless they know what they are doing I generally don’t listen to pet store employees(I once had someone tell me to give my vinnie some water gel cubes and another told me that my raphael catfish would act as a “cleaner” fish like a pleco). I just do what I know is better but if the scorpion looks fine then he should be all good.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

Besides the fact that it dries the substrate whats so bad about a heat lamp.

They’re nocturnal and stressed by too much light, will make the scorpion more inclined to hide away more, are a waste of energy as they generally aren’t needed, you risk overheating or desiccating the scorpion as they generally burrow and hide to avoid the elements above ground among other things

 

[Dry Desert]

They’re nocturnal and stressed by too much light, will make the scorpion more inclined to hide away more, are a waste of energy as they generally aren’t needed, you risk overheating or desiccating the scorpion as they generally burrow and hide to avoid the elements above ground among other things

What is all this negativety about heat lamps ?? How can any nocturnal creature be stressed by too much light ?? The only natural way to heat scorpions is from an overhead scource. Heat mats don't work, I have never encountered a heat scource coming from the side and definatley not from underneath.
Part of my collection are Chaerilus spp. and Euscorpiops spp. both kept in heavily planted enclosures - try growing plants without daylight bulbs - even leds give of heat.
95% of all scorpions come from very warm climates where there plenty of plants, even in arid areas, where the sun provides the life giving rays to the plants - Oh - the sun is that large shiney thing in the sky - Even Pandinus spp. come from Africa where I believe they have sun for 2/3 days a year!! Also unless you have your scorpions in an area that is not heated and maintains 26 - 32 deg. cent. you have to heat , and the only natural way is from above. As scorpions are nocturnal and don't sunbathe this is probably why they hide away during the day, some in burrows over 6 feet deep.
I have been keeping scorpions for over 30 years now all with overhead heat sources of one form or another and will continue to do so - heat mats are for feeder insects.

 

[NYAN]

What is all this negativety about heat lamps ?? How can any nocturnal creature be stressed by too much light ?? The only natural way to heat scorpions is from an overhead scource.

You are forgetting space heaters, infrared bulbs, ceramic heaters and probably a few other things. If they burrow and hide, what does it matter to them where the heat comes from?

Mine receive heat from an angle as do many other keeper’s scorps. They don’t seem to care where it’s comes from.

 

[Dry Desert]

What is all this negativety about heat lamps ?? How can any nocturnal creature be stressed by too much light ?? The only natural way to heat scorpions is from an overhead scource. Heat mats don't work, I have never encountered a heat scource coming from the side and definatley not from underneath.
Part of my collection are Chaerilus spp. and Euscorpiops spp. both kept in heavily planted enclosures - try growing plants without daylight bulbs - even leds give of heat.
95% of all scorpions come from very warm climates where there plenty of plants, even in arid areas, where the sun provides the life giving rays to the plants - Oh - the sun is that large shiney thing in the sky - Even Pandinus spp. come from Africa where I believe they have sun for 2/3 days a year!! Also unless you have your scorpions in an area that is not heated and maintains 26 - 32 deg. cent. you have to heat , and the only natural way is from above. As scorpions are nocturnal and don't sunbathe this is probably why they hide away during the day, some in burrows over 6 feet deep.
I have been keeping scorpions for over 30 years now all with overhead heat sources of one form or another and will continue to do so - heat mats are for feeder insects.

@Mayla Brian
I wouldn't advise changing the woodchips for about a week, put the hide back and leave the scorpion for a while to recover, any more stress won't be good. Let the scorpion recover and then worry about changing things around.

 

[NYAN]

@Mayla Brian
I wouldn't advise changing the woodchips for about a week, put the hide back and leave the scorpion for a while to recover, any more stress won't be good. Let the scorpion recover and then worry about changing things around.

I would advice changing it ASAP. The wood chips are sharp and are probably contributing to the stress. It probably wants to burrow, so what better way to let it get away and recover then by changing the substrate. Also, the wood that those chips come from may be one which can be toxic to inverts, such as ceder.

Changing the substrate doesn’t take that long either. I don’t see how it would cause more stress than being kept on inproper substrate for a week.

 

[Dry Desert]

I would advice changing it ASAP. The wood chips are sharp and are probably contributing to the stress. It probably wants to burrow, so what better way to let it get away and recover then by changing the substrate. Also, the wood that those chips come from may be one which can be toxic to inverts, such as ceder.

Changing the substrate doesn’t take that long either. I don’t see how it would cause more stress than being kept on inproper substrate for a week.

@NYAN. I thought space heaters,infared bulbs and ceramic heaters were all heat lamps, a BULB is A BULB and a LAMP is A LAMP, also the scorpion wil just want to hide away under its hide, it may not have the strength to burrow. For goodness sake leave these creatures alone to recover from stress don't keep fiddling with things and keep ckecking to see if all is okay. Are you sure your scorpions don't care where the heat comes from or is it more convenient for you to keep them that way.ALWAYS Replicate their natural wild environment.

 

[NYAN]

I thought space heaters,infared bulbs and ceramic heaters were all heat lamps, a BULB is A BULB and a LAMP is A LAMP, /QUOTE]


Nope. They are very different. Many people will use ceramic and infrared bulbs just fine. They emit mostly heat and little or no light that is visible to the scorpion. The kind that people don’t like are the regular UV ones.

. also the scorpion wil just want to hide away under its hide, it may not have the strength to burrow. For goodness sake leave these creatures alone to recover from stress don't keep fiddling with things and keep ckecking to see if all is okay.

I agree, but it should be rehoused first, then left alone. It has enough energy to have a defensive reaction, therefore its condition is likely not critical. I think the improper enclosure causes more stress than doing a 5 minute rehouse.

 

[NYAN]

@NYAN. Are you sure your scorpions don't care where the heat comes from or is it more convenient for you to keep them that way.ALWAYS Replicate their natural wild environment.

I’m not sure why my last message got all screwed up, but here’s my response to your last statement:

Is there any reason why they would care?

It’s imposible to replicate their natural environment. You can not replicate microclimates and several feet of substrate, seasonal changes etc.

They normally hide under rocks, debris and in burrows. The heat from the sun and air will therefore warm the area around them.

 

[Dry Desert]

I’m not sure why my last message got all screwed up, but here’s my response to your last statement:

Is there any reason why they would care?

It’s imposible to replicate their natural environment. You can not replicate microclimates and several feet of substrate, seasonal changes etc.

They normally hide under rocks, debris and in burrows. The heat from the sun and air will therefore warm the area around them.

If you are going to quote anyones statements make sure your quote is correct. I think many Dart Frog breeders/ Amphibian/ Reptile keepers would disagree with your statement about being unable to replicate microclimates. Many, many species of scorpions can be kept the same- as mine are.
I am not "screwed up" I just don't understand why some people on this forum drift away from the topic/thread and keep stating time and time again the obvious.
I also think it would be good if people read ALL the reply to a thread and not comment on the first few lines.

 

[Dennis Nedry]

What is all this negativety about heat lamps ?? How can any nocturnal creature be stressed by too much light ?? The only natural way to heat scorpions is from an overhead scource.

Why wouldn’t light stress it? Too much light would just lead to it hiding more and you seeing it less. What’s the point in even having the heat lamp if you can’t use it when the scorpion is active at night and more exposed? It being natural doesn’t make much of a difference when the animal is living in a glass tank

Heat mats don't work

Heat mats work just fine, attach it to the back or side of the tank with electrical tape and use some insulation between the tank and mat and you eliminate the risk of it cooking itself when it burrows towards the heat source and sits right above it

try growing plants without daylight bulbs - even leds give off heat

LEDs give off very little to no heat, certainly not enough to make a noticeable change in the enclosure’s temperature

@NYAN. I thought space heaters,infared bulbs and ceramic heaters were all heat lamps, a BULB is A BULB and a LAMP is A LAMP

Ceramic heat emitters create the same heat from above but create no light, infra red bulbs create the same heat as a heat lamp and create red light which is less noticeable to a scorpion, space heaters are the heaters you use to heat the entire room or house. Space heaters aren’t even close to being a direct heat source or a heat lamp

95% of all scorpions come from very warm climates where there plenty of plants, even in arid areas, where the sun provides the life giving rays to the plants - Oh - the sun is that large shiney thing in the sky - Even Pandinus spp. come from Africa where I believe they have sun for 2/3 days a year!! Also unless you have your scorpions in an area that is not heated and maintains 26 - 32 deg. cent. you have to heat , and the only natural way is from above. As scorpions are nocturnal and don't sunbathe this is probably why they hide away during the day, some in burrows over 6 feet deep.

Hiding away during the day is the reason why heat lamps aren’t necessary. Last time I checked one of the many reason some species dig 6ft deep burrows is to escape both the heat and aridity, so how is it natural to expose them to heat they’d otherwise avoid? If you’re gonna turn it off at night so that the scorpion will actually exit it’s burrow then what’s the point of heating it in the first place if that heat will quickly dissipate? May as well just use a heat mat attached to the side or a ceramic heat emitter which won’t create light that will disturb the scorpion. If you’re turning it off and night and not using any heat sources to allow a cooling period then what’s the point in using a heat source at all if it’s hiding away in a cool burrow?

The most natural way to heat them at night would be using a heat mat attached to the side of the enclosure. If they’re active at night and the sun isn’t out at night and any heat is either leftover ambient temperature or radiating off the heated sand and soil then it would be more natural to use an indirect source like a heat mat on the side of the tank.

I’m not saying using a heat lamp during the day is wrong and I’m not saying that there is one right way to heat them, I’m saying that the idea that the only right and natural way to heat them is with an overhead lamp is just plain wrong