Can sac mates become future pairs?

[JamesGSixx]

So let's say i have 2 nhandu chromatus slings. 1 female and 1 male. Can they grow up and be paired? or will the male mature faster and pass away before the female matures? also is inbreeding a thing in the tarantula world? Was just curious about this. thank you for the help

 

[Paul1126]

Males will probably mature and pass before females are ready.

People would strongly advise you not to inbreed...

 

[JamesGSixx]

Males will probably mature and pass before females are ready.

People would strongly advise you not to inbreed...

Are there any reports of inbreeding here? i'm curious to know what happens. I'm obviously not gonna try, but i would like to know

 

[KezyGLA]

Yes. Sacmates are often bred with each other.

 

[antinous]

Depending on the species, yes. It would be much harder to breed species of African baboons together as the males mature so early on. But with NWs it’s easier. People in the US fail to realize that this happens because new species aren’t usually brought into the US, they’re brought into Europe. And while there, it’s common for them to be bred to each other if not enough individuals of different genetic backgrounds are present.

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Yes, it would take some manipulation though. Females would need to be kept much warmer and fed more often to reach sexual maturity faster, males would need to be kept much cooler and fed less often to prevent them from hooking out before the female is ready.

 

[JamesGSixx]

Depending on the species, yes. It would be much harder to breed species of African baboons together as the males mature so early on. But with NWs it’s easier. People in the US fail to realize that this happens because new species aren’t usually brought into the US, they’re brought into Europe. And while there, it’s common for them to be bred to each other if not enough individuals of different genetic backgrounds are present.

Yes, it would take some manipulation though. Females would need to be kept much warmer and fed more often to reach sexual maturity faster, males would need to be kept much cooler and fed less often to prevent them from hooking out before the female is ready.

Interesting. Are there any side effects of inbreeding in tarantulas?

 

[The Grym Reaper]

Interesting. Are there any side effects of inbreeding in tarantulas?

I'm not even sure if there's been enough research done on inbreeding in invertebrates to determine that.

 

[Enrgy]

Depending on the species, yes. It would be much harder to breed species of African baboons together as the males mature so early on. But with NWs it’s easier. People in the US fail to realize that this happens because new species aren’t usually brought into the US, they’re brought into Europe. And while there, it’s common for them to be bred to each other if not enough individuals of different genetic backgrounds are present.

sir i must have your pfp....

 

[Teal]

I paired P. chordatus sac mates - three females with one male. The girls were not at the maximum size for the species (5") when he matured, but they were a healthy breedable size (3"). They all laid viable sacs that I kept slings from, and those offspring are perfectly fine.

I have a plethora of P. murinus sacmates and now half-relations (same female, different male) that I plan to pair together.

 

[Ungoliant]

Interesting. Are there any side effects of inbreeding in tarantulas?

While I am not aware of any research on the effects of inbreeding in tarantulas, we know generally that prolonged inbreeding often has detrimental effects on animals. This is why so many animals have reproductive/dispersal strategies that help to reduce inbreeding. (For example, male spiders generally mature faster than their female sac-mates.)

It's unclear what effect inbreeding has on spiders or how many generations of inbreeding they can tolerate before things go awry. (There are some tarantula species whose domestic stock are all descended from a small number of imported spiders, and no one has noticed any problems that have been definitively attributed to inbreeding.)

While they are not spiders, I have noticed with my mealworms that after several generations of inbreeding, I started seeing a lot of bad molts. Adding a cup of fresh mealworms seems to have solved this problem. @EulersK noticed a similar issue with his dubia colony, which was resolved by adding new males.

Here's some anecdotal evidence. About a year ago, my dubia colony started going downhill. Males maturing with no wings, dwarfism running rampant, females with no antenna, and so on. That colony of tens of thousands is the result of two breeding pairs that I got for free a few years ago. The inbreeding started to catch up. Luckily, a small influx of a few dozen males every year keeps those issues at bay. It doesn't take much to mix up the genetic pool, is what I'm saying.

 

[Nightstalker47]

From what I hear, you can...but its best to try and bring in new blood. Eventually, inbreeding may lead to unhealthy offspring.

I have also noticed that sac mates are often more hesitant to breed with each other.

 

[esa space station]

So let's say i have 2 nhandu chromatus slings. 1 female and 1 male. Can they grow up and be paired? or will the male mature faster and pass away before the female matures? also is inbreeding a thing in the tarantula world? Was just curious about this. thank you for the help

Short snswer yes e.g how do you think most e.u breeders slways have true t blondi(slings c.b sll year round)the other argument regarding inbreeding tho is a bit academic.naturally keep the male cooler /fed less to time maturation for when its needed

 

[Greasylake]

I'm not even sure if there's been enough research done on inbreeding in invertebrates to determine that.

It's not proper research but there was a thread on the mantid forums about someone who tried inbreeding to see what would happen. Essentially what happened was that the first two generations grew up and paired with each other without problem. There were a few losses, but not more than you wouldn't expect from an invertebrate anyway. Come the 3rd generation though, the vast majority died before the L3 molt. If I remember right it was only like 15% of them survived to L4 and beyond, despite being kept the same.

 

[cold blood]

It's not proper research but there was a thread on the mantid forums about someone who tried inbreeding to see what would happen. Essentially what happened was that the first two generations grew up and paired with each other without problem. There were a few losses, but not more than you wouldn't expect from an invertebrate anyway. Come the 3rd generation though, the vast majority died before the L3 molt. If I remember right it was only like 15% of them survived to L4 and beyond, despite being kept the same.

ive read similar results with ts...problems seem to only arise after the 3rd gen of inbreeding.

 

[PanzoN88]

I know nothing about inbreeding tarantulas and I would like to avoid it, so when looking for new snacks.........I mean mates for my females I hope that they are not sac mates from years gone by (no luck finding males in case anybody wants to know)

 

[viper69]

inbreeding Ts is not good, but it's been done.

 

[CEC]

Ideally, sure, why not find distant genetics ? But in reality it is common practice... Most new species are inbred off a small group that was taken from the wild and then inbred again once they hit the States. I will avoid it when I can but nothing is stopping me from breeding groups I've raised. There's just not enough data or evidence to discount it. How many people actually trace back the ancestors when doing a breeding loan? Let's be real.

 

[BoyFromLA]

So, it’s not wise for one to get several slings from a vendor in thinking of getting both male and female out of them, and breed them in the future?

 

[Nightstalker47]

Chase makes a good point, none of us would even know if our spiders were related, not unless they were bought as sac mates. I can easily see how MMs would be bred with their mothers unknowingly. As usually the breeders keep their MFs for a long time, and the every day hobbyist's will often trade or sell their MMs to the same people they got them from as slings.

Now it does depend on the species, some were imported in much higher numbers then others. Odds are they all have some distant relatives in common, and may even all originate from the same family tree.