C. Lividum Setup

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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42
In general, heat mats are not recommended for T’s. Your best bet is a space heater that’s not blowing directly on the habitat.
Heat matts under the terrarium are the issue not attached to the side. Plus space heaters use a lot of electricity and I'm on a meter. And I won't always be here to regulate a whole rooms temp. Much easier to use a matt with a thermostat to knock it up a few degrees automatically when needed :)
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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yes there are many people with Ts in the UK. I generally keep mine 68-70F night, 70-75F day.
Fantastic. I know I don't want to turn up the heat too much on her but it will be good to give her a bit of heat to keep her more comfortable
 

TomKemp

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Like Chris said earlier and I agree, You might want to point that burrow entrance in another direction for to be safe. Mine has never bolted out but the opposite, She will retreat further into her burrow if she detects any movement close by. A good bit of vermiculite mixed in with your substrate helps tremendously with retaining moisture. I have also read where a lot of keepers say that they will put a layer of vermiculite in the bottom of an enclosure before adding substrate to hold moisture better for burrowing species that are more dependent on it. C Lividum enjoys zero human interaction and on occasion you might catch her out and about in the middle of the night, which is a rewarding and beautiful sight when you do get to see them.
 

Arachnophoric

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Heat matts under the terrarium are the issue not attached to the side.
It's still really not a good idea to use a heat mat. Even when hooked up to a thermostat and/or attached to the side of the enclosure (where it's even less help in what it's supposed to be doing), there's ways that it can be detrimental to your T. And an unnecessary risk when they can be kept fine around room temp. It'd be a shame for you to spend so much time and money on your dream T just for it to end up ill or dead because of something entirely avoidable. Ultimately up to you, but that's just my 2 cents on it. Very gorgeous species, not a good choice in a first tarantula by any means but it looks like you've already made up your mind on this. Good luck! :)
 

Nonnack

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Sep 26, 2016
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How heat mats, can make T ill or dead? If used in correct way ofc. Heat mats, heat cables are very popular in keeping Ts, reptiles, snakes and other stuff, never heard it harmed any animal. And room temperature can vary, I have 24-30C day, and 20-24 night,but if some one have like 20C day and 16C night, some extra heating is needed.​
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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Agreed. I have researched this a lot and come across many reputable owners who use heat matts to substitute their T's temps.

The danger with matts is dehydration. But if I only have the matt on for an hour or so during the day and I provide her with enough water and damp substrate she should be fine.

It's 3 degrees outside with snow on the ground and my flat is a nice 20 degree temperature so I shouldn't need to play with temps that much anyway
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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Like Chris said earlier and I agree, You might want to point that burrow entrance in another direction for to be safe. Mine has never bolted out but the opposite, She will retreat further into her burrow if she detects any movement close by. A good bit of vermiculite mixed in with your substrate helps tremendously with retaining moisture. I have also read where a lot of keepers say that they will put a layer of vermiculite in the bottom of an enclosure before adding substrate to hold moisture better for burrowing species that are more dependent on it. C Lividum enjoys zero human interaction and on occasion you might catch her out and about in the middle of the night, which is a rewarding and beautiful sight when you do get to see them.
Initially I buried the tunnel into the deepest substrate so she would have somewhere to go. I have since corrected this and it is pointing more towards the side of the tank.

I was considering blocking the end of the tunnel so that when I need to remove her I can do so easily and without disturbing her too much keeping both herself and myself safe in the process.

Thoughts on this?

Theoretically if she was unhappy with this arrangement she could make her own burrow that's deeper.

Many thanks :)
 

Arachnophoric

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How heat mats, can make T ill or dead? If used in correct way ofc. Heat mats, heat cables are very popular in keeping Ts, reptiles, snakes and other stuff, never heard it harmed any animal. And room temperature can vary, I have 24-30C day, and 20-24 night,but if some one have like 20C day and 16C night, some extra heating is needed.​
Heat mats are common when being used with reptiles, since they need external heat sources for thermoregulation/digest food, normally higher than average room temperatures can offer. I own several reptiles, and I don't keep my Ts the same way I keep them - it isn't necessary, and fussing over some of the finer points (exact temps/humidity/etc.) is ultimately unnecessary when it comes to tarantulas, IME. They're much simpler than the care my ball pythons and boas require. Tarantulas don't need that external heat source, just a good ambient temp, and as Keira mentioned, the biggest risk they present when unregulated is potential dehydration. Tarantulas will seek out that heat source and camp on it, which can present dehydration risks. Something I wouldn't personally want if not necessary.

Agreed. I have researched this a lot and come across many reputable owners who use heat matts to substitute their T's temps.

The danger with matts is dehydration. But if I only have the matt on for an hour or so during the day and I provide her with enough water and damp substrate she should be fine.

It's 3 degrees outside with snow on the ground and my flat is a nice 20 degree temperature so I shouldn't need to play with temps that much anyway
I'm curious to know which owners you've come across that use heat mats? Not saying that you're lying, nor that it can't be done, but almost anyone I've ran into whom is worth their salt would likely advise against the use of a heat mat. And if you're only plugging it in for an hour at a time, I really don't see it making any difference that's worth having it in the first place, IMO.
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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Heat mats are common when being used with reptiles, since they need external heat sources for thermoregulation/digest food, normally higher than average room temperatures can offer. I own several reptiles, and I don't keep my Ts the same way I keep them - it isn't necessary, and fussing over some of the finer points (exact temps/humidity/etc.) is ultimately unnecessary when it comes to tarantulas, IME. They're much simpler than the care my ball pythons and boas require. Tarantulas don't need that external heat source, just a good ambient temp, and as Keira mentioned, the biggest risk they present when unregulated is potential dehydration. Tarantulas will seek out that heat source and camp on it, which can present dehydration risks. Something I wouldn't personally want if not necessary.



I'm curious to know which owners you've come across that use heat mats? Not saying that you're lying, nor that it can't be done, but almost anyone I've ran into whom is worth their salt would likely advise against the use of a heat mat. And if you're only plugging it in for an hour at a time, I really don't see it making any difference that's worth having it in the first place, IMO.
I've actually come across many varying reports of using heat mats both online and in books. But I do get your concern.

I just want her to be happy and 20C seems too low. And because I'm in the UK this is a real concern for me
 

Mojo288

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Jun 18, 2017
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Needs alot more sub, my girl has over 12" of substrate depth and uses ALL of its, doesn't use the surface much anymore.

You're current setup barely has any room for her to burrow.

Vermiculite at the bottom of your substrate mix will keep you humidity up.

As for heat mats, your concern shouldn't be dehydration, if your T is dehydrated then it has been neglected.The issue with heat-mats (or any direct heating element) is hot-spots, T's burrow to avoid heat, you can see how a heat source from underneath can cause issues. If you are REALLY worried, just put a space heater in the same room as the T.

As for plants and such, my girl just covered everything with dirt and web to the point that you can't tell there was ever any decorations in there at all, so really it's up to you but within a month or 2 it will look the same regardless lol.
 

Arachnophoric

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As for heat mats, your concern shouldn't be dehydration, if your T is dehydrated then it has been neglected.The issue with heat-mats (or any direct heating element) is hot-spots, T's burrow to avoid heat, you can see how a heat source from underneath can cause issues.
Hot spots are definitely a potential problem as well. It was to my knowledge though that tarantulas may seek out a heat source like a heat mat and will hang out next to it, causing potential for them to dehydrate faster with the higher temperatures. Is that not true?
 

Andrea82

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@Arachnophoric
Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' ;).
Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.

Heat mats are a point of contention between US and European keepers it seems.
The point with heat mats is how you use them, and which kind you use. A heat mat that gets over 50°C like the sticky ones used for reptiles have no business in or on a Theraphosidae enclosure.
But a mat that gets 38°C is safe to use when put in the upper most corner on the outside. Used with a thermostat, nothing goes wrong.

I use a heatcable that has a core temp of 38°C, the outside of it gets 27, two cm beyond the cable it gets 25. I keep my Ts in a cabinet and have put the cable on the underside of the boards. The enclosures are some 6/10 cm away from it and it's a comfortable 20/22C in them. The cable never touches the enclosure, but the spiders are still comfortable. Living in a country that has very high energy bills, a cable or mat is a more convenient solution. I can't keep my spiders without additional warmth, the house cools down to 14C at night and some rooms barely reach 18C during the day. Which isn't warm enough for the tropical species.
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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42
I do plan to add more sub for her. It's on order.

@Arachnophoric
Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' ;).
Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.

Heat mats are a point of contention between US and European keepers it seems.
The point with heat mats is how you use them, and which kind you use. A heat mat that gets over 50°C like the sticky ones used for reptiles have no business in or on a Theraphosidae enclosure.
But a mat that gets 38°C is safe to use when put in the upper most corner on the outside. Used with a thermostat, nothing goes wrong.

I use a heatcable that has a core temp of 38°C, the outside of it gets 27, two cm beyond the cable it gets 25. I keep my Ts in a cabinet and have put the cable on the underside of the boards. The enclosures are some 6/10 cm away from it and it's a comfortable 20/22C in them. The cable never touches the enclosure, but the spiders are still comfortable. Living in a country that has very high energy bills, a cable or mat is a more convenient solution. I can't keep my spiders without additional warmth, the house cools down to 14C at night and some rooms barely reach 18C during the day. Which isn't warm enough for the tropical species.
Thankyou!!!!!

People in America seem not to get how cold it gets in Europe and how expensive space heaters are!!! hahaha
 

Mojo288

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Jun 18, 2017
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Used with a thermostat, nothing goes wrong.
I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.

People in America seem not to get how cold it gets in Europe and how expensive space heaters are
As for the weather in Europe, i am quite familiar with the weather in the UK as i have lived in London for quite some time. Your post failed to mention financial constraints with regards to heating, my main concern is for the well being of the T and the safest method of heating is a space heater. If this is not financially feasible, insulating and raising the ambient temperature of a smaller area would be just as effective, as well as more affordable, and eliminates any possibility of the T being harmed by whatever choice of heating element you go with.

Lastly, my comment about the substrate was directed towards you choice of enclosure, you have front opening doors with a retaining wall of 4 inches or so, there is insufficient depth for you to put in enough substrate.
 

Mojo288

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It was to my knowledge though that tarantulas may seek out a heat source like a heat mat and will hang out next to it, causing potential for them to dehydrate faster with the higher temperatures. Is that not true?
In that situation i would expect the tarantula to cook itself. Dehydration implies a slow decline, i would expect the T to cook itself pretty quick.

(This would only be for the heating mats i have come across, i personally haven't come across and low temp heat mats like you've mention @Andrea82 and those temps should be safe, assuming nothing went wrong)
 

KeiraJ

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Nov 20, 2017
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I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.



As for the weather in Europe, i am quite familiar with the weather in the UK as i have lived in London for quite some time. Your post failed to mention financial constraints with regards to heating, my main concern is for the well being of the T and the safest method of heating is a space heater. If this is not financially feasible, insulating and raising the ambient temperature of a smaller area would be just as effective, as well as more affordable, and eliminates any possibility of the T being harmed by whatever choice of heating element you go with.

Lastly, my comment about the substrate was directed towards you choice of enclosure, you have front opening doors with a retaining wall of 4 inches or so, there is insufficient depth for you to put in enough substrate.
Thankyou for your time and replies.

I did actually mention in the thread about how expensive space heaters are and the fact I'm on a coin meter compounds that fact. Also I live in a small studio apartment. There is no way to segregate the room to help with heat.

Also I work long hours and am not at home very often. So using a heater would not be feasible really as that would just as likely overheat her.

If this tank is too small for her I'm sure she will let me know pretty soonish. Otherwise a sub depth of 9/10 inches I feel personally is enough
 

Mojo288

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Thankyou for your time and replies.

I did actually mention in the thread about how expensive space heaters are and the fact I'm on a coin meter compounds that fact. Also I live in a small studio apartment. There is no way to segregate the room to help with heat.

Also I work long hours and am not at home very often. So using a heater would not be feasible really as that would just as likely overheat her.

If this tank is too small for her I'm sure she will let me know pretty soonish. Otherwise a sub depth of 9/10 inches I feel personally is enough
I meant heating a something like a cabinet or cupboard or broom closet, if you just insulated a cheap cabinet and had your heating element inside (even a small one would work for this setup) you would easily be able to maintain higher temps with no risk to your T. And the substrate dam on that exo terra is at 4.5 inches, yes you have maybe 9 inches of sub piled against the back, but maybe 5-6 inches of usable depth, it won't hurt your T, but from personal experience the more burrowing room i'v given my lividum the less defensive she was and more willing to hide/retreat during maintenance.
 

Andrea82

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I'm sorry but i have to disagree; thermostats, rheostats or any other controller can fail, and contact heating elements fail as well,. There is no way to guarantee that electronics won't fail. I will personally never advocate direct / close proximity heating elements to maintain T temperatures when there are other options. My issue isn't they they don't work or that they are ALWAYS harmful, but the fact that they CAN harm the T.



As for the weather in Europe, i am quite familiar with the weather in the UK as i have lived in London for quite some time. Your post failed to mention financial constraints with regards to heating, my main concern is for the well being of the T and the safest method of heating is a space heater. If this is not financially feasible, insulating and raising the ambient temperature of a smaller area would be just as effective, as well as more affordable, and eliminates any possibility of the T being harmed by whatever choice of heating element you go with.

Lastly, my comment about the substrate was directed towards you choice of enclosure, you have front opening doors with a retaining wall of 4 inches or so, there is insufficient depth for you to put in enough substrate.
Which is why i never apply a heat mat or cable directly to the enclosure. ;)

@KeiraJ
An exoterra is not really considered suitable for a burrowing species, unless you put the section with the doors on top. If you don't, you have not enough dept to provide sufficient burrow depth. From what I've gathered C.lividus is even more cranky when it doesn't have a burrow deep enough to feel secure.
 

Arachnophoric

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@Arachnophoric
Careful who you call 'not worth their salt' ;).
Many reputable Dutch and Belgium breeders use additional heating in the form of mats or cables.
I had no idea that was a more popular practice over there, thank you for letting me know. I still personally wouldn't do so, but to each their own. Like Mojo mentioned and I'm sure you already know, heating elements can malfuction - I've had one of the heat mats that was hooked up to a thermostat fail fantastically and hit temps over 100 degrees. It was a good thing I caught it, or my poor boa Jethro would have baked. So if it isn't necessary, like it is with my reptiles that need additional heating for thermoregulation and digestion, I'd rather not use it at all. Just eliminate the risk altogether, ya know?
 
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