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Discussion in 'Myriapods' started by CHLee, Mar 12, 2018.
Sulawesi island, Indonesia
One of my favorite morph/species, absolutely stunning. Hopefully the taxonomy gets sorted out for these soon
Very beautiful colors, I wonder what species name they come up with.
Did you made the pictures? And do you have some information?
A few days earlier I saw nearly same looking species for sale, just with blue legs and from the Philippines.
That was the most spectular colered species I have ever seen.
The Philippine blue and orange ones are aquatic. There are videos of them resting in streams, which is just amazing.
How can you say that? Where you have that information from? We already don't no which species the centipede in this thread is and we also don't know which species the centipede from the Philippines is which I have seen.
If you have more information please share it with us.
I've seen the video on Facebook, it's of a large centipede curled up on the bottom of a stream. It's not dead and it can escape perfectly fine but it shows no stress underwater. I'll have to dig it up
There is a video on Instagram of a large, dark blue centipede (not the striped morph but the man who owns them collects both) motionless at the bottom of a fast stream. He calls them "water centipedes" or "Philippine Mint Legs". Other people have reported seeing blue, swimming centipedes in the Philippines, mainly the highlands of Negros Island. They aren't necessarily aquatic, more like semi-aquatic as no centipede can breathe underwater but those certainly seem to hide and maybe, like S. cataracta, hunt underwater.
The species that this thread is about was previously called S. s. piceoflava and that may still be the official name for this type but there will be taxonomic revisions or corrections soon so it is best to leave it unnamed for now. I don't think they are too closely related to the Philippine ones judging by different habits (videos show these can't swim well) and general body shape differences, but I've learned never to say anything based on conjecture when it comes to myriapod taxonomy.
Stop with the misinformation, many centipedes will use water as a hide when close enough, I have heros and dehaani that have curled up in the water bowl underwater to rest. Many of the larger specimens can last up to 20 minutes fully active while submerged.
That is true, but these Philippino species seem to do it more often and enter deeper and faster moving streams than dehaani. They are in an area that has monsoons quite often so even if they didn't actively submerge they'd still probably get their burrows flooded quite often during the wet season, maybe not so much for heros' environment though
That wasn't intentionally misinformation. I myself have centipedes that enter their water bowls and rest for long periods. I've sexed 'pedes using water and can confirm that many species not found by water are able to swim and be active underwater for a long time. I don't doubt that other species would take advantage of water to hide. But in the wild, I don't think many species would actively enter water as much as the one I saw in that video. Even if it was placed there or chased into the water, it was in a position that seemed to suggest it was comfortable in even fast-flowing water. From other photos and anecdotal evidence it seems their habitat is by creeks and streams. The man who collects these 'pedes in the wild and probably has a great deal of experience with them calls them water centipedes.
But, I could be wrong. Anything based on only observations made from others' pictures and video isn't the same as seeing the centipede or the habitat yourself. I'm in no position to make solid statements on things I haven't experienced, these are just guesses based on very little information.
I unfortunately don't know the video but why you mean it is the same Centipede like in this thread? Just because same colour? The centipede I was talking about was from Luzon, I know nothing about it just looking same color with blue legs.
Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava is since 2012 Scolopendra subspinipes. And CHLee didn't write anything about the species, so why you guess it's Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava?
Sorry guys and don't be mad at me but these are just assumptions based on pictures and videos and it's just guesses that actually of no importance. You are experienced enough to know that.
@CHLee you posted the pictures so I guess you keep these centipedes!? Do you have some information about that centipede?
I am not trying to imply that this centipede is the same as anything. Some people have called this form S. s. piceoflava, but the author of this post and I do not currently use that name as it is outdated and likely incorrect. I just wanted to give a name that you could use to look up more information about it even if the name is incorrect. I agree with both of you that this is very likely something else entirely.
The ones from the Philippines are certainly not the same. (I am fully aware that color has little value when identifying species.) The reason I brought up that fact about the Philippine centipede was because you mentioned a centipede with stripes and blue legs that sounds very much like one that I have seen pictures of that also lives in the Philippines. I also know that some centipedes of that type were recently imported to Europe, which leads me to believe the centipede you saw for sale was the one I have seen pictures of.
It's entirely possible I'm wrong about everything.
To quote the 2012 study:
"Scolopendra subspinipes piceoflava differs from Scolopendra subspinipes s. str. only in its colour as it is described with a reddish brown head capsule and first tergites, while the other tergites are dark brown with a lighter (or even yellowish) caudal border. In centipede taxonomy, colouration is not a reliable scientific character for distinguishing a species."
Funny they mention the last bit. But the coloration, antennomere count (17-18), and distribution of Indonesia described in the paper all check out. This paper reassigned piceoflava to S. subspinipes. Next, there was a 2016 article that redescribed S. s. piceoflava which states:
"Based on examination of the syntypes, we corroborate the assignment of this nominal subspecies to the S. subspinipes group. Some morphological characters that appear, however, not to be identical with S. subspinipes are the sharpness and length of the coxopleural process, which bears one or two strong apical spines, the ratio of ultimate leg podomeres, and the colouration pattern on the tergites that is clearly distinct from other geographical populations of S. subspinipes (the posterior part of the tergites exhibiting a yellowish colouration). However, without additional material and lacking molecular data with which to test relationships among morphological similar species, we tentatively accept S. subspinipes piceoflava as a junior synonym of S. subspinipes as proposed by Kronmüller (2012)."
(Both articles have detailed anatomical photos that match this picture.)
Now I'm no taxonomist, and I can't say if piceoflava is not a subspecies, a subspinipes subspecies, or its own species, but since 2016 S. s. piceoflava is currently the accepted name for this type. Some choose not to give it that name or any name which I have no problem with. I fully agree with the author of this post that a review of this type is necessary and may lead to it becoming its own species.
Piceoflava is a junior synonym, meaning s subspinipes has priority over it, so no, you shouldn’t be calling it piceoflava.
I've noticed these pedes popping up on several IG accounts recently. Was there a recent import or something?
I wonder the same thing, just this week it seems.
They're being exported from Indonesia. Anyone in the US who has them got them illegally, or from someone who got them illegally.
You just said yourself that many other centipedes will hide in and are comfortable in water. I've had mutilans hide in water and catch fish from cups of water, but mutilans aren't aquatic.
The Philippino who collects and sells them never called them aquatic or mentioned them being aquatic when he started selling them a year ago. For a few months last year he was basically begging me to buy them from him, and not once did he say they're aquatic. Only very recently has he started saying they're aquatic, IMO likely because they aren't selling well. Apart from what he tells you, how do you know they're found in or near streams and display aquatic behavior in the wild?
The centipede whisperer (Mastigoproctus) has them. Presumably he got them illegally then?