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Browsing old thereads and........

Discussion in 'Scorpions' started by Extensionofgreen, Jul 15, 2017.

  1. Extensionofgreen

    Extensionofgreen Arachnosquire

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    There many, many threads one the forum where experience is spoken of. I understand the premise. People should, at a minimum, have experiencing doing their own research and developing critical thinking skills, which we see lacking more and more by the countless threads, in all hobbies, that ask questions a google search could have answered. That aside, I'm curious as to what qualifying factors someone should have to be considered "experienced". For me, it's not about having kept such and such species, before acquiring another, it's more about the mindset and maturity it takes to house an animal safely and properly, respect its potential to do damage, and being responsible for learning about the animals from before acquisition and into an ongoing relationship with learning. That said, not everyone is cut out for a highly venomous species from the outset. Some people simply aren't very good at seeing the potential ahead of time for things like cats knocking things over or toddlers finding loaded guns, but I suspect our often quoted word of "experience" doesn't really address those types of people.
    What I'm really getting at is that I see people advising people to get "bark" scorpions before and L.q.. To me, a Tityus or more venomous Centruroides is more dangerous than an L.q.. Why? It's simple! A bark scorpion has the potential to be in unexpected places, like the rims of containers or hidden between decorations. Stings are more likely when the location of the animal is unknown. Danger is not just about venom level. With an L.q., the hides would be flat and it they don't climb the way barks do, so they should stay more visible or at least their location is known and the less likely to be some place you're not expecting.
    I think that "experience" is a term that has a lot of broad bases to cover, from maturity to experience with other species, but if we are to give advice on providing a progression from say emperors to L.q.s, I would think a Desert Hairy gives a more similar scenario to the L.q., without the venom. If someone is wanting a dangerously venomous bark ( which dangerously venemous can be an ambiguous concept itself ), we could start with FL C.gracilis or the like, so the person can be used to looking for the animals in tight and high places. Of course, maybe none of this is needed for someone having kept arboreal Ts, pokies for sure.

    I'm curious as to what others feel makes and experienced keeper and what qualifiers there are to owning the species we consider more dangerous. To me, experience is much more about critical thinking and owning your role as responsible caretaker, which encompasses practicing humane husbandry and excellent safety practices. I'm not sure keeping other species first is an obligatory prerequisite, but I think having experience with hands off herps, whether it be they are animals that stress when handled or that they can hurt you, sets up a person for not being inclined to handle something they shouldn't. For myself, I tend to research, and jump into whatever I want to do, once I feel I have enough to draw from. In other words, if I have the husbandry knowledge I need or all that I can find, in some cases, I've kept enough of everything over the years, that I trust my judgement to take precautions and approach things with a mature and responsible frame of mind. I might have been less likely to do so at 12 years old, but that doesn't mean a 12 year old can't have a sound mind and safe approach to husbandry either. It's about the mental commitment and if you can stay married to the idea of absolute responsibility.
     
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  2. ArachnoDrew

    ArachnoDrew Arachnoangel Active Member

    Good questions

    I agree with 90% of what your saying their is a massively broad base to cover in the topic of "experienced". Myself for example am new to the hobby, literally 6 months in and my knowleadge in the realm of scorpions has grown greately due to all the addictive research i do in wanting to become as knowledgeable as possible to make my growing experience as smooth as possible. Im by NO MEANS an expert on any level of the hobby but my "Rank" in the forum speaks for itself in the short amount of time in how active i am, Im in every post. Asking a millions questions, tagging and annoying everyone with everything lol and am slowly starting to become looked to for advice. I do my best and would never get unconfident knowleadge.
    I take great safety measures and precautions with all scorpions, Those precautions of course vary depending on what sp. I am dealing with in the moment but none the less the amount of respect for the animal regardless on toxicity is handled the same... when it comes to "new comers" and recommendations / advice on new scorpions to get into or for the first time. Some people cant help but resists wanting something very specific, even if it means wanting an LQ or Androctonus Sp for the very first time. Or something colorful and nice looking with a realistic display like a Tityus or centruroides. If the advice givin is proper and the research done is efficient, then the new comer will know what safety measures to take reguardless on what it is.
    I Do beleive to claim the title or title in a specific topic "experienced". It does require to have actually had physical experience owning the scorpion itself. Almost in comparison to the " long working experienced employee", beating out the kid "fresh out of collage". obtaining information mentally doesnt by any means, mean you can propley raise a scorpling from birth to adult hood, the scorpion breeding gods struggle with raising and breeding some specific scorps but it can tremendously help smoothen the process. I myself started with a desert hairy but my addicition ran me very quickly into Androctonus, parabuthas, and Hottentotta lol and ive been successfull so far with the help of everyone on here.
     
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  3. Stenodactylus

    Stenodactylus Arachnosquire

    I don't know what to say that hasn't already been said. You guys hit it on the head. I've had many a Centruroides be on or very near the lid of the enclosure without my faintest knowledge of it. And what people don't realize is how fast both Tityus and Centruroides are!!

    That being said, as I've learned from many of the places I've worked for, safety has to be the top priority. I take extreme security measures (such as locking the room when dealing with anything deadlier than a Grosphus) and having a secure, locked cabinet for my scorpions. Or anything venomous. The double containment method has always worked well for me, learned that working at the zoo. :) But, even if something is as docile and harmless as a Uroctonus, I don't let others touch or interact with my scorpions without extreme supervision. It can be an enlightening experience for someone to have a large scorp like a Pandinus casually crawl on them, but I generally avoid handling any of my animals. Unnecessary stress.

    As for the term experienced.... I'm not sure. I've been around the block with gecko species such as Hemidactylus, but I don't consider myself an "expert". As ArachnoDrew pointed out, it took lots of true, palpable experience with the species to gain knowledge with them, not just browsing some internet forum ;) While this does have its place, I personally think keeping stuff in the flesh is the best teacher. (By no means should a beginner get a Leiurus or Androctonus without proper knowledge, however!!) I believe experience also comes by knowing when to give advice, and when to listen to others who have been in the hobby for much longer than you. Scrap that, anyone who knows more than you. I know many gecko hobbyists who will not listen to what scientists and researchers have to say. Crazy. I look to information wherever I can get it, and then take it with a grain of salt.
    All of this to say, experience does come from keeping multiple species, but also from listening and learning as much as possible. :)
     
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  4. RTTB

    RTTB Arachnoprince Active Member

    What I ask people is what is your reason for going deadly right out the gate? There is a certain thrill factor I guess and badge of honor for some. For the hardcore studious prepared enthusiast it makes sense. I am a seasoned hobbyist who has yet to own an LQ or any similar for that matter. Have kept a few Tityus and alot if Centruroides and I'm ultra careful with those. The deadly ones aren't in my area of interest. My passion is Native US scorpions. I do worry at times that some disaster will happen with a youth or inexperienced ill prepared beginner dying from that easy to obtain LQ T stigmurus Phoneutria species spider A australis or highly venomous snake etc etc etc. It makes the news and then we are all fucked. No more overnight or 2 day deliveries to your front door anymore.I have no control over others and all I can say is be careful!!! For purely selfish reasons I do not want my lifelong passion for keeping scorpions being threatened.
     
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  5. Extensionofgreen

    Extensionofgreen Arachnosquire

    I agree whole heartedly. In some respects, to keep or not keep a potentially dangerous animal should be a personal choice, made by rational, mature individual. On the other hand, that animal could harm others, if it escaped or was handled improperly. I'm constantly amazed at what is legal to sell and 18 yo, but then again, we live in a world where we give mentally ill people the right to own assault rifles, before we ensure they have healthcare. I think if your snake, scorp, gun, or what have you injures another person, because you failed to secure it handle it properly, you should be amply and duly charged with negligent homicide or whatever he case calls for. That said, to me, a scorpion is a scorpion and a tarantula is a tarantula and the only danger presented by either is in not taking enough precautions. I think scorpions are far easier to manage than snakes and spiders. There really are easy ways to 100% prevent a sting.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2017
  6. So what makes an experienced or expert hobbyist? Well, you have to put in the effort to learn as much as you can through first hand experience, internet, books, fellow hobbyists, scientific literature, and whatever else. Keeping scorpions isn't rocket science so it's easy to become an expert. Try to keep a variety of different species so you can learn about their temperament, breeding habits, and husbandry. I don't know, that's about it. Not much too it. :)