Brown Boxing Your Tarantula - Supply and Demand - and getting things illegal

[MrDeranged]

Admin Note

enough already!!!!!!!!!

This is the second time that what I thought was a good thread has gone to crap due to pig headedness and an inability to agree to disagree.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT SOMEONE IS SELLING TARANTULAS FOR, DON'T BUY FROM THEM!!!!!!!

NO ONE has any right whatsoever to dictate prices for ANYONE other than themselves.

At no point was anyone appointing themselves "saviours" of the hobby or that they're the only one to buy from.

Very few here (I'm not saying none, but probably not more than 100 of the more vocal members) actually know the real costs involved in importing.

Do you all know that there used to be a couple people that just imported strictly for the hobby? Do you know that this no longer occurs? Do you know that it's because of the illegal importation of the focus of our hobby into the U.S.? That it stopped because after time spent bringing stuff in, it was a losing proposition?

Brown Box all you want... Enjoy all those cheap tarantulas..... When those sources dry up, due to attrition, incarceration, or just plain boredom, the t's you have left may be all you'll ever see again. It's quite possible that all the "legal" dealers will have gone out of business by then.

You see, whether you love the hobby or not, unless you're independently wealthy which I'm sure most of us aren't, you're not just going to keep pouring thousands upon thousands of dollars worth of money, time and effort into something for nothing.

Really people, grow up.....

Next person who talks about something other than brown boxing in this thread may very well get suspended. There will be no other warnings.

Scott

BTW, nice to see you back Kelly, wish it was under better circumstances. Give me a call

 

[Redneck]

Got a question for the importers..

This is a hypothetical situation.. But I am curious..

If I wanted to get an import licence for say a one time import.. Would I have to go through the same hoops as if I were doing a business? Would it cost as much?

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

Hey, with all you importers here. Does anyone have access to CB Europen scorpions? I've sold some things lately and have a decent amount of money in my paypal account. If you guys have any upcoming imports and are willing PM me. I'd be willing to give you first dibs on any captive bred babies I produce as well.

Trying to stay on topic. Why is it that no one imports scorpions in any numbers from Europe. Lots of tarantulas but no scorpions.


JOhn

The problem is there is not a big market for scorpions so doing a scorp only import would loose money really. My guy only does tarantulas but I am working on him to get some scorps

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

yes

Got a question for the importers..

This is a hypothetical situation.. But I am curious..

If I wanted to get an import licence for say a one time import.. Would I have to go through the same hoops as if I were doing a business? Would it cost as much?

Yes i believe so. The import license is cheap though its the import itself that cost.

 

[Redneck]

Yes i believe so. The import license is cheap though its the import itself that cost.

OK.. I am not going to try and pretend I know how any of that works.. Because I dont..

You say the licence in cheaper than the import itself? I was in the understanding that once you buy the licence then all you are doing is buying what you are importing and paying for say shpping..

Is there a site I can read on all other complete accurate charges so I know what I would be paying or is that something I would have to call and talk to someone about?

 

[KenTheBugGuy]

OK.. I am not going to try and pretend I know how any of that works.. Because I dont..

You say the licence in cheaper than the import itself? I was in the understanding that once you buy the licence then all you are doing is buying what you are importing and paying for say shpping..

Is there a site I can read on all other complete accurate charges so I know what I would be paying or is that something I would have to call and talk to someone about?

The import licence is under 100 dollars if I remember right its the cost of getting the animals here legal that is expensive. You can't bring animals in the mail that is illegal and what brown boxing is. You have to pay for an actual plane ticket for the animals to get here which is the most costly. Then there are the fish/widlife fees they charge to come an inspect your shipment. You also need a broker and a bond for the import to make sure you get your animals right away and they don't sit at the airport for a week waiting for customs....think that is most of the fees....

 

[AF Exotics]

Yes,as Ken stated,same license ,same cost if one or one hundred imports .That's why my post showed what the average LEGAL import looks like .That is before mortality and the regular overhead a business has .You have to triple the cost of the animal in most cases to stay open as a business if you are going to import on a moderate basis .To be successful,not just stay open,figure 3.5 to 4 x the cost on most things you import .Simple economics are the rule .No business ,except the Government can operate on a losing margin .


They(Gov't) have our tax revenues to rely on,small business like Ken's or Kelly's ,doesn't .I try to support our U.S. suppliers as much as possible .

 

[Redneck]

The import licence is under 100 dollars if I remember right its the cost of getting the animals here legal that is expensive. You can't bring animals in the mail that is illegal and what brown boxing is. You have to pay for an actual plane ticket for the animals to get here which is the most costly. Then there are the fish/widlife fees they charge to come an inspect your shipment. You also need a broker and a bond for the import to make sure you get your animals right away and they don't sit at the airport for a week waiting for customs....think that is most of the fees....

Well.. I think that answers my question.. I will just continue to be a hobbyist and not attempt a busniness.. Thanks for the info.!

 

[AF Exotics]

Go to Post #43 of this thread and you will see what an average import looks like .

 

[AzJohn]

The problem is there is not a big market for scorpions so doing a scorp only import would loose money really. My guy only does tarantulas but I am working on him to get some scorps

I know a lot of scorpion keepers really feel kind of left out everytime we see the Europeans posting there amazing collections. I'm pretty much only a scorpion guy and the temptation to brown box is pretty big. In my hobby it's not an issue of getting species cheaper it's an issue of getting species period. It's real frustrating to see common species in Europe not available in the US. I know it's a niche market but if you could even bring in maybe two new species each import they would be super rare in the US, I'd buy them and a lot of others would as well. Even the cheap stuff in Europe would be new here.

Thanks

John

 

[Redneck]

Shipping 450.00
Brokerage 220.00
USFW 156.00
ISC 40.00
Broker Export side 120.00
Doc's 100.00

WOW!! I must have over looked this post.. That is some insane prices! Yeah! I am happy to continue to be a hobbyist.. No need for me to import nothing...

 

[Mvskokee]

I know a lot of scorpion keepers really feel kind of left out everytime we see the Europeans posting there amazing collections. I'm pretty much only a scorpion guy and the temptation to brown box is pretty big. In my hobby it's not an issue of getting species cheaper it's an issue of getting species period. It's real frustrating to see common species in Europe not available in the US. I know it's a niche market but if you could even bring in maybe two new species each import they would be super rare in the US, I'd buy them and a lot of others would as well. Even the cheap stuff in Europe would be new here.

Thanks

John

I agree 100% it sucks seeing people get the really awesome species. But us getting left out. I almost brown boxed a few myself just out of not knowing it was illegal. After I found this out I had to turn a different direction. It could be months or years before I get a chance at some if ever. I understand you have to go with the market and all but man does it suck.

 

[Smitty78]

WOW!! I must have over looked this post.. That is some insane prices! Yeah! I am happy to continue to be a hobbyist.. No need for me to import nothing...

Tommy,

Remember that when you break the costs down on a $3,000-$10,000 order it does not add all that much to each spider. You also need to think about the risks. Dying, shipping delays, etc... that do happen, and these gentleman are forced to eat. Then if you are dealing with WC animals, you have to contend with them coming in unsexed. Say half of them come in male. Then they are virtually not worth anymore than the wholesale price that was paid let alone not being able to sell them all. There are quite a few more factors involved, but you can see how it adds up rather quickly.

 

[AzJohn]

I agree 100% it sucks seeing people get the really awesome species. But us getting left out. I almost brown boxed a few myself just out of not knowing it was illegal. After I found this out I had to turn a different direction. It could be months or years before I get a chance at some if ever. I understand you have to go with the market and all but man does it suck.

I know the temptation. I've had lots of offers when I try a WTB add or offer things for trade. Lets hope some of the importers help us out. If they do we need to do our part and make it profitable.

There was a similar thread, with out all the theatrics, in the scorpion sub forum a month or two ago. People, myself included were talking about trying to some people together and trying to get a import or two done. A lot of talk with good ideas but man it's so hard to find the time and money. I think our best bet is the established importers. Maybe we could get someone to add some scorpions to there next European import.
John

 

[Mvskokee]

I know the temptation. I've had lots of offers when I try a WTB add or offer things for trade. Lets hope some of the importers help us out.

John

I really hope so. The money is no problem. Its the actual getting them that sucks. I wish more people would get into scorps they are missing out.

 

[John Apple]

One thing that has not been mentioned at all in this thread, unless I missed it thru all the thump thump posts
We all know it is illegal bringing stuff in , lets talk a bit about the guy that is brown boxing stuff out of the country....really what about those folk also...it seems that it works both ways illegally....
I have a friend that wants some of the off color [albino gracilis] in europe and I said I can't ship to him ...how would I accomodate him ?

 

[Smitty78]

One thing that has not been mentioned at all in this thread, unless I missed it thru all the thump thump posts
We all know it is illegal bringing stuff in , lets talk a bit about the guy that is brown boxing stuff out of the country....really what about those folk also...it seems that it works both ways illegally....
I have a friend that wants some of the off color [albino gracilis] in europe and I said I can't ship to him ...how would I accomodate him ?

I am sure you could work something out with some of our importers/exporters so that they could ship for you. I do imagine it would need to be a sizable order to make it cost effective. It's quite obvious that this happens illegally. All you need to do is read through some recent reviews :wall:.

 

[AF Exotics]

Things like that can be worked out I'm sure .I think if enough of you scorp guys and gals got together ,you could make it worthwhile to some of the Dealer's and get what you want at reasonable pricing .

 

[Redneck]

Tommy,

Remember that when you break the costs down on a $3,000-$10,000 order it does not add all that much to each spider. You also need to think about the risks. Dying, shipping delays, etc... that do happen, and these gentleman are forced to eat. Then if you are dealing with WC animals, you have to contend with them coming in unsexed. Say half of them come in male. Then they are virtually not worth anymore than the wholesale price that was paid let alone not being able to sell them all. There are quite a few more factors involved, but you can see how it adds up rather quickly.

Yeah I actually don't find the idea to be a very good one now.. Well not for me that is.. Kudos to the guys/gals that have established their business.. I now have way more respect for the "big boys".. It has to be a headache dealing with all of that..

 

[Mvskokee]

I know there are alot of people that wantalot of different species like hottentotta and so on. I'm you dealers could help us it would be aweeeeesome!