Breeding question for the pros

[Reitz]

About 2 months ago two of my emps mated. Last night the female molted. Any idea what happened? I witnessed the entire mating process, so I know it wasn't a fight--in fact, the female even picked up the spermatophore. So is it possible that they don't know when they're mature? Sounds like a dumb question, but I'm stumped.

Chris

 

[krucz36]

sounds like a job for skinheaddaave.

i'm pretty sure that if an arthropod molts after taking in a spermatophore there's no babies coming. everything comes off.

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Depending on species, there is between four and six molts before reaching sexual maturity, which means that a scorpion can quite possibly give birth after a molt from a breeding prior to it.

I haven't read this entire book yet, so I'll see what else I can locate.



adios,
edw.

 

[skinheaddave]

That's the first I've heard of it. Females can mate prior to reaching sexual maturity but everything I've read suggests that they can not actualy accomplish anything in doing so. What book is this, Edward? I would be very interested in reading it.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[Kugellager]

From what I understand; If for some reason a scorp manages to mate before maturity and then molt after the suspected mating it would loose the sperm from such a mating just as a Tarantula would. They loose the same inside linings when they molts as spiders do...though they do brood their young internally.

John
];')

 

[krucz36]

kug: that's the assumption i based my reply on, tho framed in more of a "its late and i am somewhat tired" set of terms.
it seems reasonable that the entire cuticle would come off, including genital linings and the interior of the mouth 'n' whatnot.

 

[Reitz]

Thanks for the responses. I was actually just asking if anyone had ever heard of scorps mating before reaching sexual maturity. Shows how much of a beginner I am. Thanks again.

Based on your observations (and this goes to anyone who's interested in answering), would you assume that the female is now sexually mature? Or would she be willing to mate even two molts before maturity?

Thanks again,
Chris

 

[Kugellager]

How large is it?(telson uncurled)...that would go a long way on helping us to form a guess as to its sexual maturity.

John
];')

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Dave,


'Scorpion Biology and Research' [Philip Brownell, Gary Polis] merely states that there are between four and six molts prior to obtaining sexual maturity (Chapter 2). There is no information I have which makes a statement of exactly which of the female's internal sexual tissues are shed during a molt, so I would be skeptical trying to make a statement of fact either way, so again, I'll just say, it is quite possible. I'm going to keep reading and see if I can't possibly locate any more harsh results.

adios,
edw.

PS: 'Catalog of the Scorpions of the World' is also great.

 

[skinheaddave]

Edward,

Well, I've read it cover to cover and there is nothing in there that I recall to suggest it is possible or truly impossible. I will do more reading through the literature to try to find an answer.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[XOskeletonRED]

Dave,

Considering you've read the entire thing, it may be easier to locate something of the likes of the female internal sexual tissues shed during molts. Most noticeably, when you are specifically searching for it, may it come up, as it often seems to happen. I'm not sure of all the information in Scorpion Biology (still hasn't arrived here yet), so perhaps you may find some more in depth information of female molts there. If not, we can always question the Scorpion Biologists and such whom roam the Yahoo groups. If none give a well defined and reasoned answer, I can order all of the reference materials for an often studied species and see if there may be some information there which may be useful (it would be nice to have the info anyway, as I'd like to get all of it in time). It does make me curious to know whether a scorpion's molting is so similiar to a tarantula, and I'd prefer to have a definite answer if a question of such a topic should arise again. I'm sure we all would.

adios,
edw.

 

[skinheaddave]

Well, Scorpion Biology tends to suggest that the inner lining would be shed, but detailed info on the actual process is only suggestive. Also, I can find no info on the actual changes which are undergone during sexual maturation -- likely because nobody has studied them. As for looking into a commonly studied species, that is an idea ... but would be a much better idea if such a beast existed. The majority of scorpion studies are still venom related or taxonomic and very little has been done on their basic biology.

Cheers,
Dave

 

[XOskeletonRED]

I'll see if I can get a high power microscope from a friend in the next few days to go over a molted skin and inspect for all internal female sexual components (had a female H. spinifer molt yesterday anyway).
Considering P. imperator is common amongst the trade, I'll make the asumption that there has probably been more in depth studies relating to the species, due to it's ease of obtainability, low cost, and large size, making it easily viewable even under lower powered microscopes. There are about fifty references listed in the Catalog for the species, so I'll see what I can dig up there. There are quite a number of species with huge numbers of references, so anything is possible with any of them. Someone with a professional status must have studied, in depth, the shed exoskeleton at some point or another, whether it's published or not. I do have a number of unpublished references that are sited to the person who raised the idea, so I can always refer to them for more information.
It is entirely possible that the components shed, but so thin that they do not stay attached to the main exo and simply mix into their surroundings, unseen, or blend so well with the rest of the exo, that they are virtually not viewable.


adios,
edw.