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Brazilian species ban including common hobby species?

Discussion in 'Tarantula Questions & Discussions' started by CommanderBacon, Mar 7, 2019.

  1. NYAN

    NYAN Arachnoprince Active Member

    I’ve never heard of anyone telling me their shipment has been seized besides that one article. I will talk to the person I import with to see what they know.
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Patherophis

    Patherophis Arachnobaron Active Member

    Nope. Only US decided to play these games AFAIK.
    • Informative Informative x 1
  3. Johjie

    Johjie Arachnopeon Arachnosupporter

    I saw this article https://apnews.com/fb367b579d214d1d96e97a31318cde3c a couple months ago from an actual news source. There's probably more that can be verified but they can't catch everything. i don't know how you would be able to tell whether or not a specific seller is engaging in ethical practices as far as importing goes. That is unless the TKC plans to roll out a list of "TKC approved keepers".
  4. Tim Benzedrine

    Tim Benzedrine Prankster Possum Old Timer

    I'm having a little trouble wrapping my head around this.

    The solution to preventing species from being illegally imported is to ban the sale and keeping of tarantulas that have been bred and sold for generations (of tarantulas, that is)? Wouldn't that simply create a bigger black-market? Because who is going to pay a premium for species like A. genic and L. parahybana, unless the captive U.S. bred ones dry up, increasing their value? And wouldn't that would recreate a segment of the black-market that logically would have ceased to exist.

    Are species like A. genic and L.P.s even still actually imported at all?
    I guess I can see the laws being relevant to species that are still currently illegally imported. But shoot, if the native population of genics and LPs suddenly became extinct, they could probably be re-introduced simply with a few sacs from each U.S. breeder that produce them.
    • Agree Agree x 3
    • Award Award x 1
  5. Rob1985

    Rob1985 This user has no status. Old Timer

    This law is pretty much unenforceable on a preemptive level, but that doesn't mean they won't enforce it reactively or investigate reports. US federal law enforcement agencies are notorious for hiring private investigations firms to handle the evidence collection to offset low agency staffing. The fact of the matter is that it's still law and if breeders and "super sellers" want to risk breaking the law to sell their T's so be it, but don't come crying to the boards when you're supeonaed to court on charges of illegal animal trafficking and subsequently facing hefty fines or jail time. The law is the law, even if it sucks.

    On a lighter note, good luck to those who bred an LP recently!
  6. Vorax29

    Vorax29 Arachnopeon

  7. 8leggedRN

    8leggedRN #1 Deadpool Fan Arachnosupporter

    So, basically, just what everyone thought was going to happen did. All Ts here are good, and can be bred/sold/trades, but no more imports.

    I think it would have been better for everyone if the TKC wouldn't have jumped the gun, released some sensationalized email, riled up a bunch of people, then came to the rescue with this clarification conversation. They should have made sure they had all of the information first rather than freaked a bunch of people out over essentially what amounts to more scrutiny over importing.
    • Agree Agree x 7
  8. mack1855

    mack1855 Arachnobaron Arachnosupporter

    So,if I am reading this correctly,the animals already here in the hobby,are legal
    to bred,sell and trade.Its not an official statement,but seems to be the way its headed.
    Maybe some good news for a change.Fingers still crossed!.
  9. Johjie

    Johjie Arachnopeon Arachnosupporter

    Agreed. This sounds so much better than 'we're going to make a list of tarantulas we recommend you not buy and also recommend you not support the breeders selling them'.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. 8leggedRN

    8leggedRN #1 Deadpool Fan Arachnosupporter

    Yeah. I've never had any dealings with them, but they seem kind of clique-ish. I appreciate them trying to organize the hobby, really, but I think they overstepped a lot in this issue, and caused a lot of people heartache over essentially nothing.

    To somewhat quote an oft-quoted movie:
    I don't know who made them king, I didn't vote for them!
    • Agree Agree x 3
  11. Johjie

    Johjie Arachnopeon Arachnosupporter

    I was told by a supporter to ask my questions in their community Facebook group which is closed and moderated by the board members. So I can definitely understand the clique vibe.
  12. StampFan

    StampFan Arachnolord Active Member

    To quote Public Enemy,: "Don't, don't, don't, don't, don't believe the hype". And Flavor Flav can't be wrong.
    • Agree Agree x 3
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  13. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    I'm not surprised FWS isn't going after T's in this country already. Their budget is small and they're understaffed - not going to waste time, money, and resources on this.

    I see Phasmids all over FB and even dealers websites - as I stated above, just replace FWS with USDA.
  14. AphonopelmaTX

    AphonopelmaTX Moderator Staff Member

    This whole thing got me curious as to how many tarantula species and which species the USFWS will be looking for on imports. I queried my own tarantula taxonomic database(**) for all species known from Brazil and are also known to occur in Brazil and other countries.

    There are 199 species in total that occur in Brazil. Of those 199, 40 are known to occur in other countries as well. So 40 species, if imported into the USA, will have to have proof from the importer that the tarantulas being imported, or the source material if spiderlings, were caught and exported from a non-Brazilian country. 154 tarantula species are only known from Brazil and can not be imported.

    Now that the USFWS are on the look-out for Brazilian tarantulas coming into the USA, I will be very interested to see how many of those species will disappear from the American tarantula keeping hobby. Especially if the imports primarily come from a European country where the European exporter doesn't have proof of where their source animals came from.

    If anyone is interested in a list of Brazilian tarantulas, let me know via PM and I will send it to you. I don't want to post it here and make it too easy for other people to publish it on their own web sites.

    (**) The source of the data included in my own personal tarantula taxonomic database is the World Spider Catalog which in turn uses information from published works. Only described species and their published distribution are accounted for. The number of Brazilian tarantula species stated here does not take into account misidentified species in the pet trade or species that have not been described but are available in the pet trade.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Informative Informative x 1
  15. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    Seeing as FWS isn't looking to stop breeding, as long as there enough of the species for a viable gene pool I don't see why of them should disappear. So there won't a LP shortage anytime soon ;)

    As for species without a viable gene pool, well we may have to depend on Europe to keep them going in the hobby until hopefully more hobby-friendly (thus more T friendly) laws are passed. As I have asserted before, laws that ban species from export create conditions for smugglers to thrive. And since smugglers can't package their shipments properly due to the need for secrecy, many more T's die in shipping, meaning more need to taken from the wild to supply the demand. Whereas a well-regulated trade in these species with the goal of establishing them in captivity would in the long run be beneficial.
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2019
    • Agree Agree x 2
  16. cold blood

    cold blood Moderator Staff Member

    euthanizing one or 100000 slings takes basically the same effort.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  17. volcanopele

    volcanopele Arachnosquire

    So it sounds like they will be enforcing the Lacey Act from here on with respect to imports of Brazilian species, but leaving specimens and breeding in the US alone.

    Definitely a reasonable policy (kinda wish this was how the Sri Lankan Pokies were dealt with). This definitely is making me considering breeding some of my more rare Brazilian Ts, like my female bromelicola, to help keep US stocks up.
    • Like Like x 3
    • Agree Agree x 1
  18. mack1855

    mack1855 Arachnobaron Arachnosupporter

    Agree,should have been,However,the pokies were on the endangered species designation list.
    I believe the Brazilian T,s were not given that protection,or classification.
    Please,anyone, correct me if I made a stupid statement.I tend to do that a lot.:D.
    I think Brazil just got a burr up their you know what.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  19. SonsofArachne

    SonsofArachne Arachnoangel Active Member

    You're correct. But it would have been better for them (and us) if they had just been cites listed, which wouldn't have prevented interstate trade.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  20. Minty

    Minty @londontarantulas Arachnosupporter

    Any further update to this?