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Brachypelma baumgarteni vs Brachypelma boehmei

Discussion in 'Tarantula Chat' started by Exoskeleton Invertebrates, Jun 29, 2017.

  1. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

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    DSC_1069.JPG DSC_0358.JPG DSC_1053.JPG DSC_0382.JPG DSC_1029.JPG DSC_0125.JPG DSC_1067.JPG DSC_0088.JPG DSC_1032.JPG DSC_0120.JPG To start off I've been wanting to post photos of the two species and give a brief description between the two. So I'm creating this thread for the reasons of many people have a hard time ID the two species. Obviously DNA would be the best way to tell them apart. However since we are just miserable hobbyists that we can sometimes count on trusting and relying vendors and people like myself of posting photos and selling the true species between baumgarteni and boehmei. If you wish to know who are the current vendors who are selling Brachypelma baumgarteni private message me and I'll be more than happy to tell you who those vendors are.
    If you have purchased a tarantula that was sold as boehmei but if it has the appearance of a baumgarteni most likely it is 99% a hybrid. You should be asking yourself these questions. Why was it sold as boehmei? Why does it have the appearance of a baumgarteni? What are the years known that Brachypelma baumgarteni were successfully bred? Who were the breeders that successfully bred first and second inbred generations of Brachypelma baumgarteni? What were the known years and who imported Brachypelma baumgarteni? Who recently successfully bred first generation Brachypelma baumgarteni and where were they imported from? Was Brachypelma baumgarteni was ever successfully bred in the USA and who bred them?
    Once you have these answers you'll know the history of this beautiful species.

    Brachypelma baumgarteni immature male is 4.25" inches. I only wish that the baumgarteni male was a bit bigger and had more of the adult appearance but these photos will do for now. The baumgarteni male was imported out of Europe, it is the second inbreeding generation of this species, mated by Eddy Hijmensen "Metallica".

    The boehmei was also imported out of Europe.

    A brief description:

    As the baumgarteni gets bigger the species will have lots of black hair coloration around the lighting bolt pattern on the metatarsal. On all eight legs the lighting bolt pattern on the metatarsal will be equally visually seen vs the boehmei with a black line on the metatarsal on all eight legs. Brachypelma baumgarteni is light beige, peach coloration vs boehmei a fire red color. On the carapace between baumgarteni and boehmei and detail appearance between the two species is a huge difference as well.

    With the hybrids amongs us I understand that it would be difficult for most of you to determine and wether a specimen you've acquired or seen photo of is a hybrid or a true species. Since I have previously own hybrids and both true species I like to think I've done a good job of helping others properly ID some specimens. Plus knowing the history of the successful breeding is a major tool to use as well.

    Please keep in mind I'm no taxonomists but a miserable hobbyists that can only give you my best expert opinion by my experience of owning these true species as well with the hybrids that I've previously owned in the past.

    Bottom line is if you don't know the history of origins of you specimens between this two species, in my opinion you most likely don't have the true species.

    Anyways here are the photos of the Brachypelma baumgarteni vs Brachypelma boehmei.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  2. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    DSC_1040.JPG DSC_0094.JPG DSC_1016.JPG DSC_0129.JPG Here are the rest of the photos.
     
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2017
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  3. Nightstalker47

    Nightstalker47 Arachnoprince Active Member

    This is very helpful stuff, I can try and get a few pictures of my hybrid if it's of any use. I know you were asking about seeing the palps...

    One thing, why do you keep stating we are just miserable hobbyists? I like to think we're more then that lol.
     
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  4. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    Oh I'm just being sarcastic since most taxonomists don't acknowledge our hobbyists point of view.

    I do hope this helps some of you.
     
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  5. mconnachan

    mconnachan Arachnoprince Active Member

    Stunning pictures and very informative, thanks for taking the time to share your experience with these species.
     
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  6. viper69

    viper69 ArachnoGod Old Timer

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  7. ThisMeansWAR

    ThisMeansWAR Arachnosquire

    Very informative. I might be a bit dense but which is which? I can't see any captions.
     
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  8. Nightstalker47

    Nightstalker47 Arachnoprince Active Member

    In this order, Baumgarteni/Boehmei.
     
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  9. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I thought about writing the names when I posted the photos. I ran out of time yesterday busy with work.

    Photos # I, III, V, VII, IX, XI and XIII is Brachypelma baumgarteni

    Photos # II, IV, VI, VIII, X, XII and XIV is Brachypelma boehmei
     
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  10. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I would but I think it's best to have this thread focus on these two species and hybrids between the two species.
     
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  11. @Exoskeleton Invertebrates
    I can never decide if I am more envious of your gorgeous specimens, your research on their differences or your excellent photography.
    Anyway, continued success in your studies of these two and their differences.
     
  12. mconnachan

    mconnachan Arachnoprince Active Member

    That's the way I saw the thread, pictures alternating between the two sp. showing the difference between them, the boehmei is very much darker in colour than the baumgarteni, the carapace on the boehmei is orange, the baumgarteni has a black almost square like appearance surrounded by orange. Hope this helps @ThisMeansWARby no means am I an expert at identification, but the photo's provided show a huge difference between the two sp. the pictures are stunning.
     
  13. JoeRossi

    JoeRossi Arachnohumbled Old Timer

    It depends on what "taxonomist" you speak with and about what specimen. I have spoken to several and a few have asked me about specimens wanting to recieve them after I was done "when they died" to help further their research on a specific invertebrate. They have asked me questions about behavior and physical differences seen (I am certain they asked Jose as well).

    I do agree most certainly that many hobbiest, including myself, can say we have seen and have in our possession far more inverts then many taxonomist. After all they may study/keep and watch hundres of individual specimens, but it does not compare when thousands, again depending on the individual specimen, are kept and examined by " us.

    Let us not forget there are a few taxonomist who are also hobbyist as well. Yet I know who I am going to when I have a specific question I want answered about an individual specimen and that is to the person with the most knowledge and hands on experience.

    Regardless and back to the main topic, great pictures showing physical differences between the species pinche bandito :) Love the close ups of white lightning vs black lightning.
     
    Last edited: Jun 30, 2017
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  14. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    IMG_5869.JPG IMG_5870.JPG IMG_5871.JPG IMG_5138.JPG IMG_5825.JPG
    I'll take all those compliments. I'm fortunate to be able to provide good clear photos of these specimens, as well of owning both species has been a blessing to provide information of their different appearances to my fellow hobbyists. These photos between the two should help any of you think otherwise that both look the same, cause clearly both don't.

    As for the hybrids that's when it will be tough for some of you to differentiate the hybrids and true species. Think of the hybrids like the an alien form from the movie "The Thing" it will try as closely as possible to imitate the true species, and in many cases both species mixed in one body. Some of you might of seen @STi specimen on this forum, the specimen is a perfect example of a hybrid. Maybe @STi can post the photos on this thread.

    These next three photos are of three different specimens that are hybrids, the photos belong to @Philth, I do have permission to post his photos.

    The fourth photo is of the Brachypelma baumgarteni, it belongs to @Jorge M and I do have permission to use his photo.

    The fifth photo is of a Brachypelma baumgarteni. The photo and specimen is mine, unfortunately she passed away a few years ago, she was over 6" inches.
     
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  15. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    And it is why Brachypelma baumgarteni has the common name of the "Mexican Orange Beauty" and Brachypelma boehmei is the "Mexican Fire Leg".

    Thank you for the compliment of my photos.
     
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  16. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    I did say most taxonomists not all. I do agree with you that there have been one or two taxonomists that are interested in hobbyists point of view of certain species. And as for the "white lighting" is actually more like a beige/orange/peach color lighting.

    Thank you for the compliment of my photos. I'm glad I had the opportunity to post a thread like this to at least try to help others properly ID some of these species.
    As I stated before with my experience of owning both species and knowing who were the breeders and exported true baumgarteni, I can help those who thinks they have true baumgarteni.
     
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  17. mconnachan

    mconnachan Arachnoprince Active Member

    My pleasure, they are a great reference point, more threads like this are needed so we can all make informed choices when buying certain species.
     
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  18. Nightstalker47

    Nightstalker47 Arachnoprince Active Member

    The next step would be trying to differentiate slings of these species. Most people don't buy their specimens as adults, myself included, when I bought my hybrid as a sling I didn't think twice about wether or not it was the true species. Now that I see pictures of the true boehmei it's pretty unmistakable. I won't be buying any of these species in the future until I know exactly where they came from, and who bred them.
     
  19. Exoskeleton Invertebrates

    Exoskeleton Invertebrates Arachnoprince Old Timer

    It is why I mentioned for those who are seeking to purchase true baumgarteni private message me and I will point you to the right vendors of who are selling them at the moment. The slings are a bit over a year old, their size are going to be approximately anywhere from .75" to 1.75".
     
  20. JoeRossi

    JoeRossi Arachnohumbled Old Timer

    I like black lightning vs white hence why I used it, but to each their own lol. Either way I am glad my gorgeous old boehmi I raised from sling is in your hands now as I can see you truly appreciate him ;)