Beta Fish Dying HELP

[Zepmaster]

Okay so I understand everyone wants him in a bigger tank, however right now this is what I’ve got to work with and I feel he is already too stressed to be moving again. I removed the filter and he is still alive and hasn’t lost color but now is at the bottom on his side and looks like he is breathing heavily through his gills. I added one more drop of stress coat today and really thought he was going to make it when he was still alive this morning but i can see that he is still in a very critical state. What is causing this heavy breathing? All he does is lay on the bottom on his side other than to come up for air and I haven’t seen him eat since I got him. I did give him the pea last night which was boiled and deshelled from frozen but all the little pieces are still on the bottom. Should I love him back into the tiny cup he came in and completely dump his water, rinse everything and start over? HELP.

I wouldnt move him if you don't have a bigger tank.
you need to keep the majority of the water intact it needs to develop the right bacteria doing a complete change as you suggest would be bad.
see: https://www.myaquariumclub.com/the-nitrogen-cycle-for-everyone-358.html
remove what food the betta does not eat as best you can try not to disturb the fish any more then necessary.

The best you can do is keep the water between 74-80f do 25% water changes with dechlorinated water that is between 74-80f daily. if you havent already, use a dechlorinator to remove any chlorine from your tap water and get a sponge filter or a filter with very low flow. I hate to say it but he'll either pull through or he wont.

If he doesnt it gives you a chance to properly cycle the tank and get the correct equipment before getting another Betta

I wish you the best of luck

 

[Zepmaster]

Tank looks kind of sparse, might want to add some shelter so the fish doesn't get super stressed or bored, maybe some fake plants or a cave. It doesn't look bloated or anything... But just in case try feeding a shelled, boiled pea. They are supposed to have a laxative effect on bettas. Hope your betta gets better!

some shelter\hide spot would be beneficial

 

[The Snark]

This is idle speculation from working on a trout farm. Providing there is no disease involved, stress is always a serious problem. When a fish undergoes, crosses the line into stress it needs ideal conditions in order to reverse the process. pH, water temperature, low nitrogen, ideal dissolved O2, and no disturbance from other fish or water currents. Then it is a wait it out scenario.
Ordinarily, a fish under stress cannot or should not eat. The digestive system has shut down. When our trout underwent stress some still were able to eat but none were able to gain any weight.

 

[RuthieH27]

Thanks for all the help guys. He’s a goner what do I need to do to prepare water for a future fish? My water tests out negative of ammonia, chlorine, and all heavy metals, just slightly soft. I know to use stress coat but it sounds like I need to let the water sit a certain amount of time?

 

[beetleman]

ahh, sorry he didn't make it i have 2 bettas i keep mine plain and simple, they are housed in 4 gallon containers,no filter,no gravel,floating fake plants thats it(they love the plants good cover and they sleep in them),i use alittle blackwater extract which tans the water atlittle,also very little aquarium salt i make up gallons of water,and i let the gallons sit in the closet for days,all the metals,chlour etc,in the water goes away,ive never had any problems doing it this way,i change their water once aweek,i take out about 3/4 not all of it,when i change their water i sift out the poop,with a small net,then add the good water put alittle aquarium salt,alittle black water extract,and i don't have any stress from them,2years today and they are doing great,some people don't like this idea,i mean filter ,gravel lots of decor etc is great and all. mine eat betta pellets,frozen bloodworms but very very little feedings,their stomachs are about the size of their eye balls,so you can imagine,and they can over eat, people like feed them alot. iv.e had very goodluck with them this way,and seeing them in the stores in those cramped "shot glasses" isnt great either,they don't need a huge tank,but they shouldn't be in those death glasses. i keep alot of fish(predatory freshwater/saltwater),so ive got alot to work with,but the bettas are very easy to care for,ofcourse i had alot die on me also,thats the part i don't like about keeping fish,but i hope this helps alittle,sorry for all of this typing,good luck and don't give up. bettas are awesome and very fun to keep.

 

[Myrmeleon]

Sorry to hear the betta didn't make it. Sometimes that happens, fish die for no reason. Well at least you can take this chance to decorate the tank.

 

[Zepmaster]

Thanks for all the help guys. He’s a goner what do I need to do to prepare water for a future fish? My water tests out negative of ammonia, chlorine, and all heavy metals, just slightly soft. I know to use stress coat but it sounds like I need to let the water sit a certain amount of time?

sorry he didn't make it

yes the water needs to cycle. when you first put water in the tank it will appear clean, ie no ammonia or other chems. ammonia is a by product of fish and other living things including bacteria. what happens is your water will be clean at first and test negative for ammonia and nitrites, but after a while, a few days, maybe even a few weeks if you have chemical filtration (many filters do, i would avoid those) the ammonia will rise sharply (causing a great deal of stress for any fish in the tank) then start to go back down again. as the ammonia levels start to go down nitrite levels will rise quickly as bacteria start eating the ammonia and produce nitrites (causing even more stress). After a short time the nitrites will start going down as bacteria start eating it producing harmless nitrates. Once your ammonia and nitrite levels zero back out your tank has cycled and now has the bacteria colonies it needs to sustain healthy water quality for fish. you want to add fish slowly after the initial cycle or it will cause the tank to cycle again as the fish load overwhelms the bacteria's ability to keep up with the ammonia.

fish will often die quickly if they are present while your tank cycles. the tank will cycle without fish in it as bacteria grows in the water starting the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate cycle.

they are housed in 4 gallon containers,no filter,no gravel,floating fake plants thats it(they love the plants good cover and they sleep in them),i use alittle blackwater extract which tans the water atlittle,also very little aquarium salt i make up gallons of water,and i let the gallons sit in the closet for days,all the metals,chlour etc,in the water goes away,ive never had any problems doing it this way,i change their water once aweek,i take out about 3/4 not all of it,when i change their water i sift out the poop,with a small net,then add the good water put alittle aquarium salt,alittle black water extract

This would work quite well, i do prefer live plants and drift wood, you can use drift wood in place of the black water extract it does the same thing but you dont need to keep adding it and the live plants help keep the water clean.

 

[RuthieH27]

sorry he didn't make it

yes the water needs to cycle. when you first put water in the tank it will appear clean, ie no ammonia or other chems. ammonia is a by product of fish and other living things including bacteria. what happens is your water will be clean at first and test negative for ammonia and nitrates, but after a while, a few days, maybe even a few weeks if you have chemical filtration (many filters do, i would avoid those) the ammonia will rise sharply (causing a great deal of stress for any fish in the tank) then start to go back down again. as the ammonia levels start to go down nitrate levels will rise quickly as bacteria start eating the ammonia and produce nitrates (causing even more stress). After a short time the nitrates will start going down as bacteria start eating it producing harmless nitrites. Once your ammonia and nitrate levels zero back out your tank has cycled and now has the bacteria colonies it needs to sustain healthy water quality for fish. you want to add fish slowly after the initial cycle or it will cause the tank to cycle again as the fish load overwhelms the bacteria's ability to keep up with the ammonia.

fish will often die quickly if they are present while your tank cycles. the tank will cycle without fish in it as bacteria grows in the water starting the ammonia, nitrate, nitrite cycle.



This would work quite well, i do prefer live plants and drift wood, you can use drift wood in place of the black water extract it does the same thing but you dont need to keep adding it and the live plants help keep the water clean.

So how long exactly do I need to let the water sit before putting in the beta? Or is it like an uncertain amount of time that I would need to just keep testing the water to figure out?

 

[RuthieH27]

ahh, sorry he didn't make it i have 2 bettas i keep mine plain and simple, they are housed in 4 gallon containers,no filter,no gravel,floating fake plants thats it(they love the plants good cover and they sleep in them),i use alittle blackwater extract which tans the water atlittle,also very little aquarium salt i make up gallons of water,and i let the gallons sit in the closet for days,all the metals,chlour etc,in the water goes away,ive never had any problems doing it this way,i change their water once aweek,i take out about 3/4 not all of it,when i change their water i sift out the poop,with a small net,then add the good water put alittle aquarium salt,alittle black water extract,and i don't have any stress from them,2years today and they are doing great,some people don't like this idea,i mean filter ,gravel lots of decor etc is great and all. mine eat betta pellets,frozen bloodworms but very very little feedings,their stomachs are about the size of their eye balls,so you can imagine,and they can over eat, people like feed them alot. iv.e had very goodluck with them this way,and seeing them in the stores in those cramped "shot glasses" isnt great either,they don't need a huge tank,but they shouldn't be in those death glasses. i keep alot of fish(predatory freshwater/saltwater),so ive got alot to work with,but the bettas are very easy to care for,ofcourse i had alot die on me also,thats the part i don't like about keeping fish,but i hope this helps alittle,sorry for all of this typing,good luck and don't give up. bettas are awesome and very fun to keep.

Thank you for all the info! I think the gallons of stored water will make all the difference! I’m going to look into the aquarium salt and black water extract. Not sure if I can get that at a loca pet store or not... if I didn’t want to wait for my own water to cycle can I buy gallons of water at the grocery store and that works as already cycled?

 

[Zepmaster]

So how long exactly do I need to let the water sit before putting in the beta? Or is it like an uncertain amount of time that I would need to just keep testing the water to figure out?

usually you would keep testing, if you still have the water your betta was in, there will i would think, be trace amounts of ammonia in it which will help get things started. a normal cycle usually takes between three and four weeks. it can be shortened by adding starter bacteria to the water via some old filter media, tank water, or starter culture I.e.: https://www.amazon.com/Tetra-Aquari...d=1517589203&sr=8-2&keywords=tetra+safe+start
but i wouldn't go less then two weeks
during that time pick up the other supplies you might need like a water heater, sponge filter, driftwood or black water extract etc.

 

[RuthieH27]

Darn it! I actually just dumped it! I figured it wasn’t safe to use water the dead fish was in. Would it be possibly to skip the weeks of waiting for water to cycle by starting with gallons of spring water from the grocery store? That way I can immediately get a new fish? My daughter will be home after school today and I have to break the news to her

 

[Zepmaster]

Thank you for all the info! I think the gallons of stored water will make all the difference! I’m going to look into the aquarium salt and black water extract. Not sure if I can get that at a loca pet store or not... if I didn’t want to wait for my own water to cycle can I buy gallons of water at the grocery store and that works as already cycled?

no, a grocery store will have clean filtered water, but what you need is the bacteria. i have seen pre-cycled aquarium water for sale at petsmart before but never used it so i dont know how well it might work petsmart will have the aquarium salt i would imagine most pet shops would


also i just realized i typed in the cycle as going ammonia > nitrates > nitrites that's not right, it should say ammonia > nitrites > nitrates Ammonia and Nitrites are toxic Nitrates are not unless they get really high that's why you do water changes sorry for the mix up

 

[Zepmaster]

Darn it! I actually just dumped it! I figured it wasn’t safe to use water the dead fish was in. Would it be possibly to skip the weeks of waiting for water to cycle by starting with gallons of spring water from the grocery store? That way I can immediately get a new fish? My daughter will be home after school today and I have to break the news to her

if you have a good local pet shop (not a big box store) they may be willing to give you a few gallons of their fish tank water that is cycled already that might be your best bet to get it up and running immediately

 

[RuthieH27]

no, a grocery store will have clean filtered water, but what you need is the bacteria. i have seen pre-cycled aquarium water for sale at petsmart before but never used it so i dont know how well it might work petsmart will have the aquarium salt i would imagine most pet shops would


also i just realized i typed in the cycle as going ammonia > nitrates > nitrites that's not right, it should say ammonia > nitrites > nitrates Ammonia and Nitrites are toxic Nitrates are not unless they get really high that's why you do water changes sorry for the mix up

No worries! Thanks for taking the time to explain all of this! I just can’t find the answers I need in a google search! Much appreciated!

 

[schmiggle]

On the off chance it's helpful, here's a diagram of the nitrogen cycle in a fish tank.

Ammonia is toxic to animals (if you've ever smelled it you'll know why), and nitrite is even more so. Nitrate, on the other hand, is not great but relatively non-toxic. Plants will use any of them to help in growth, but they can't use ammonia or nitrite fast enough to avoid harming your fish first.

In a saltwater aquarium, bacteria in the sandbed can break down nitrate into oxygen and nitrogen gas, but in a freshwater aquarium having a sandbed that deep often causes more problems (due to anoxia in the sandbed) than it solves, as far as I know.

Zepmaster explained this very well and with a lot of detail, I just figured having a picture might help. One additional advantage to having a larger tank is that it gives you a bit more wiggle room on water quality, just because water quality deteriorates more slowly.

 

[Anoplogaster]

Keep in mind that nitrifying bacteria mostly settles on surfaces, rather than suspended in the water.

 

[Zepmaster]

Keep in mind that nitrifying bacteria mostly settles on surfaces, rather than suspended in the water.

very true, that's why old filter media is best, but there will be some free floating in the water that will help seed an new tank

 

[Spidery spoo]

You should really give him a place to hide and buy or make a sponge filter and heater but for now a hiding would help to reduce stress. Also make sure you keep up on the water changes like clockwork because with the small amount of water it won't take long for toxins to build up and considering he survives that could cause a bunch of things including fin rot which would most likely finish him off

 

[Draketeeth]

Aww, sorry to hear about your little fish. I think bettas suffer from bad breeding, so getting one who is healthy enough to thrive is a challenge. They never seem to last very long which is a real shame, they're such gems.

In the future, I would provide silk plants. They make good resting surfaces for the fish. My bettas always enjoyed having a spot they could nap close to the water's surface.



To the folks who are saying the tank should have been cycled, it was my understanding that anything under 5 gallons was virtually impossible to cycle and get the cycle to hold because a water change removes so much water from the smaller volume. 5 gallons is still a challenge and more water was better. Is that inaccurate?

 

[Spidery spoo]

Aww, sorry to hear about your little fish. I think bettas suffer from bad breeding, so getting one who is healthy enough to thrive is a challenge. They never seem to last very long which is a real shame, they're such gems.

In the future, I would provide silk plants. They make good resting surfaces for the fish. My bettas always enjoyed having a spot they could nap close to the water's surface.



To the folks who are saying the tank should have been cycled, it was my understanding that anything under 5 gallons was virtually impossible to cycle and get the cycle to hold because a water change removes so much water from the smaller volume. 5 gallons is still a challenge and more water was better. Is that inaccurate?

This is untrue, the beneficial bacteria almost exclusively resides on porous surfaces with only a small amount in the water column. I think what you might be getting at is the difficulty of needing to change water to keep the fish alive and therefore remove ammonia which slows down bacterial growth when doing a "fish-in" cycle?
With a low flow filter to take care of the toxins water changes don't need to be done as much which gives you more stable water parameters and therefore a healthier tank.